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  #11  
Old 11-15-2008, 06:27 PM
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thiggins thiggins is offline
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In the Fast NAS series, I have yet to see drives make a difference. Once you get past caching effects (file size larger than RAM size on either client and/or NAS), I see no better than 70MB/s in RAID 0, even with Velociraptor drives. RAID 5 has even more overhead so would be slower.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2008, 03:57 AM
00Roush 00Roush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thiggins View Post
In the Fast NAS series, I have yet to see drives make a difference. Once you get past caching effects (file size larger than RAM size on either client and/or NAS), I see no better than 70MB/s in RAID 0, even with Velociraptor drives. RAID 5 has even more overhead so would be slower.
My latest testing using a 2 drive RAID 0 array on the server and the client came in at 112 MB/sec writing and 110 MB/sec reading a 20.1 GB file from the server. Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 was on the client and Win XP Pro was on the server. These numbers were from the Vista copy window statistics just before the file was done copying. This was also consistent with recorded network throughput. So far my Iozone results using the same command line used in the NAS charts are not reflecting these results for Vista. I believe this has to do with Vista using much larger "record sizes" for reads than Win XP. I have tested using record sizes up to 2 MB and the results look better but I still need to find out why they don't match.

00Roush

Last edited by 00Roush; 11-17-2008 at 03:59 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:38 AM
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I don't know how Windows calculates its throughput. Vista contains numerous file copy optimizations. Mark Russinovich's blog post is probably the best reference for details.

You can look at the iozone data for different record sizes and see if that supports your theory. Our NAS Charts report only the 64 KB file size, which is what Windows used to use.

If you manually calculate the transfer rate by doing a timed drag-and-drop, does it correlate with the speed that Windows reports?

I'll check with Don Capps and see what he has to say about Windows' reported file copy Stats.
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Dennis Wood Dennis Wood is offline
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Tim, I'll be very interested in your findings after discussing with Don. Vista does have several technologies, including dynamic TCP tuning that may factor in here. My measured results more or less agree with Vista's reports. I haven't been using IOzone a whole lot lately...just our measured/timed results as the IOZONE tests with load balancing connections under-reports speeds significantly.

What I've seen from Vista SP1 is that a very large file transfer (read) from the NAS slowly builds in speed until it caps out about 90MB/s. It takes nearly 10GB transferred before the file transfer speed reaches its max.

What's also weird with the latest beta QNAP code is that writes under 4GB to the NAS (with 4GB in the NAS) are no longer spiking over 112MB/s (as reported by Vista) and then gradually slowing to 45MB/s or so. Now the write speed is staying up there in the 70MB/s range. Apparently the new code uses updated SAMBA, so I'd be curious about Don's comments there too. I'm a bit cautious about these numbers as the RAID 5 writes are nearly twice as fast with just a code update. More testing required here for sure.

What I'm seeing is the NAS with the 5x WD "green" 5400rpm drives on a NetGear GS108T switch is consistently slower than NAS 2 with the 5 x Seagate 7200rpm enterprise drives, and a 3COM switch. I'd guess that the drives are the major factor, but I'm beginning to wonder about the switch too.
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2008, 02:56 AM
justin2net justin2net is offline
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i'm sure you will need a dedicated raid controller for RAID5 ~100 MB/s, esp. with large disks. 2 gigabit trunk will probably be necessary. (depends on what gigabit interface, pci or pcie)
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:57 AM
00Roush 00Roush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thiggins View Post
I don't know how Windows calculates its throughput. Vista contains numerous file copy optimizations. Mark Russinovich's blog post is probably the best reference for details.

You can look at the iozone data for different record sizes and see if that supports your theory. Our NAS Charts report only the 64 KB file size, which is what Windows used to use.

If you manually calculate the transfer rate by doing a timed drag-and-drop, does it correlate with the speed that Windows reports?

I'll check with Don Capps and see what he has to say about Windows' reported file copy Stats.
I tested iozone using sizes from 16k to 16MB and looked at the trace data provided by the Process Manager program that was in the article you linked to. Along with this I did a normal file copy and used Process Manger to trace what happened.

According to the trace data my drag and drop file copies are using a 32k request size and are doing multiple request to the network sequentially to my Win XP server. Which is keeping the network pipe full. Once the data arrives from the network it is written directly from memory to the disk sequentially in 32k blocks.

The trace data for reads shows iozone is requesting the size I set, but directly from memory. The system looks to be reading ahead of these requests but not at a quick enough rate. So what happens is the system requests the data from the network then iozone requests the data but the data has not actually arrived from the network. This means iozone has to wait until the data arrives before it will issue another read request. So multiple requests are not being made at a time and in turn the network pipe is not being kept full. My results testing with 8MB request sizes show much faster reads but much slower writes. I believe the faster reads are because the network pipe can stay full. I will explain the slow writes in a bit.

It looks like when iozone writes it writes directly to memory using the request size set. From what I can tell the whole file is written to memory if possible, then the file is flushed to disk or in this case the network. When this happens the system sequentially writes the data to the network in 1 MB blocks as fast as possible. I think the write results shown by iozone are only measuring how long it takes to write the file to memory that is why they are so high. I believe this can be fixed by using the -e switch on the command line. When using request sizes of larger than 256k with iozone for writes, Vista breaks them down into 256k blocks and writes them directly to the network. I believe this extra processing is what was causing my slow write speeds using larger than 256k record sizes.

I did test with 16MB request sizes and found that reads were much slower than with 8MB. This larger size should help keep the network pipe full but when I looked at the Process Monitor trace I found that the requests were being broken down into 64k request sizes to the network. Whereas the 8 MB requests were being broken down into two 4MB requests. On a side note I did try some of the larger sizes with iozone running on a Win XP Pro machine and did not see any increase in read speed.

This is of course just my conclusions based upon my own testing and understanding of how this stuff works. I gladly welcome any feedback.

00Roush
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2008, 04:00 AM
00Roush 00Roush is offline
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Almost forgot...

I did get a chance to do a timed drag and drop copy and here's the results:
Read was 3 minutes 25 seconds for a 20.1 GB file. So about 100 MB/sec
Write was 3 minutes 5 seconds for the same file. So about 112 MB/sec
My 110 MB/sec read I mentioned in my previous post must have been a fluke because I ran this a few times and each time was within a second or so.

00Roush
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2008, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for the detective work, 00Roush.

How much memory on both systems and what are the disk performance / caching settings?

I'll post Don Capps' response when I hear back.
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2008, 08:44 PM
00Roush 00Roush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thiggins View Post
Thanks for the detective work, 00Roush.

How much memory on both systems and what are the disk performance / caching settings?

I'll post Don Capps' response when I hear back.
Vista client has 4 GB RAM and Win XP Pro server has 1 GB RAM. Both systems are running a two drive RAID 0 array using Western Digital Carviar SE16 320GB drives. According to the benchmarks I have run these arrays are capable of a max of about 210 MB/sec for sequential reads/writes. Minimum looks to be around 115 MB/sec.

The Win XP Pro server has been set to use a large system cache. Is that what you meant about "caching settings"?

00Roush
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Roush View Post
The Win XP Pro server has been set to use a large system cache. Is that what you meant about "caching settings"?
I was thinking more about the "enable enhanced performance" switch in Vista's hard drive properties.

Thanks for the other info. I'll have a post up shortly with Don's response.
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