Dlink Dir-825 Request for Product Review [Archive]

tipstir

09-01-2008, 04:51 AM

Tim,

What's going on at DLINK now there's a 825 series I believe this one replaces DIR-625.

http://images.dlink.com/products/DIR-825/DIR-825_main.jpg

This version DIR-825 Xtreme N Dual Band Gigabit Router has:

Optimized for HD Video Streaming
Superior Performance over Competing Draft N Routers
Intelligent QoS Prioritization Technology
Simultaneous Dual Band Wireless (2.4GHz & 5Ghz)
Includes SharePort™ technology for Sharing USB Devices like Printers and Storage over Your Network
D-Link Green Verified Product

Those highlighted in bold and the second one take the USB port for sharing USB storage and print server. Wow! It's about time.

http://images.dlink.com/products/DIR-825/DIR-825_diagram.jpg

Main specs reads differently for the USB port
4 Gigabit LAN Ports
1 Gigabit WAN Port
1 USB Port (for Windows® Connect Now)

Any reviews on this product slated for September? I would like to know what's the hardware inside and price of this unit. Any confirmation about the USB would be great. This would make better choice for additional add-on N-WAP.

jdabbs

09-01-2008, 03:15 PM

I would like to know what's the hardware inside and price of this unit. Any confirmation about the USB would be great. This would make better choice for additional add-on N-WAP.

As often as you ask, I'm surprised you haven't started to use the links Tim provides.

Trying my hand at https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm:

External features:
4 switch ports,
1 USB 2.0 port,
2 removable antennas (RP-SMA).

Router CPU: Ubicom IP5170U (350 MHz?)
Memory: PSC A2S28D40CTP (http://www.zentel.com.tw/index-eng.html) (link goes to distributor's Flash site) 16 MB DDR1
Switch: Realtek RTL8366SR (http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=15&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=161) Gigabit Ethernet (supports VLANs and per-port QoS)
System board has "DGL-4500" stenciled on it. Heh.

Radios (Atheros XSPAN (http://www.atheros.com/pt/bulletins/AR9001AP-3NX2Bulletin.pdf) w/ two discrete cards):
AR9106: 2.4/5 GHz 3x3 MIMO Radio,
AR9103: 2.4 GHz 3x3 MIMO Radio. **single band, that's the gotcha of the 825**

On second thought, that was a bit of work. I'd ask someone else to do it too. ;)

tipstir

09-01-2008, 04:46 PM

As often as you ask, I'm surprised you haven't started to use the links Tim provides.

Trying my hand at https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm:

External features:
4 switch ports,
1 USB 2.0 port,
2 removable antennas (RP-SMA).

Router CPU: Ubicom IP5170U (350 MHz?)
Memory: PSC A2S28D40CTP (http://www.zentel.com.tw/index-eng.html) (link goes to distributor's Flash site) 16 MB DDR1
Switch: Realtek RTL8366SR (http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=15&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=161) Gigabit Ethernet (supports VLANs and per-port QoS)
System board has "DGL-4500" stenciled on it. Heh.

Radios (Atheros XSPAN (http://www.atheros.com/pt/bulletins/AR9001AP-3NX2Bulletin.pdf) w/ two discrete cards):
AR9106: 2.4/5 GHz 3x3 MIMO Radio,
AR9103: 2.4 GHz 3x3 MIMO Radio. **single band, that's the gotcha of the 825**

On second thought, that was a bit of work. I'd ask someone else to do it too. ;)

Thanks for the links I have to get into the FCC stuff I always through you and Tim got the inside report using these devices, but I'll do the research myself.

Good digging your part to come up with the above though. Seems like a good router. Price would be the question now? I guess just have to wait for them to hit the market?

thiggins

09-01-2008, 05:41 PM

Thanks, J. I was going to ask tipstir to use the FCC ID database, too.

Looks like a cost-down of the DIR-855, using dual-antennas and newer Atheros chipsets.

The fact that one of the radios uses a 2.4GHz single-band chip isn't a problem. There are no 5GHz single band radio chipsets at this point, so using a dual-band chip is the only way to get 5GHz.

Maybe they will let you set both radios to 2.4GHz, but I seriously doubt it.

Google shopping (http://www.google.com/products?q=dir-825) is showing prices in the $160-$170 range.
I'll ask D-Link when it will be available.

Don't get too excited about the USB "Share Port" thingy. No mention of it in the FCC user manual or the website description.

tipstir

09-01-2008, 08:07 PM

jdabbs

09-01-2008, 08:57 PM

tipstir

09-01-2008, 10:42 PM

Tim: I didn't realize band support was a radio either/or proposition; I thought they were just being stingy by not offering 6x6 capability. Your explanation (reasoning behind inclusion of two 2.4 GHz devices) makes sense.

Another underlying problem was a misconception about how MIMO worked, but I believe Wikipedia set me straight.

Tipstir: From what I can tell, the USB connectivity is to help simplify the wireless client configuration process. Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Rally#Windows_Connect_Now) an overview of the technology. It's hard to discard a blurb that's printed on the side of the box, but I'm think it's one of two scenarios:

1) Functionality was pulled to further distinguish the DIR-825 from future high-end models (hence inconsistent feature lists),
2) (more likely) SharePort is D-Link's name for SSDP/UPnP-like functionality. A simple desktop widget gets equal billing, so it may just be software.

JJ that link for the FCC I can't seem to locate this info? How do you search for DLINK? Product code or something else?

As for the USB would be great if that feature was more than WC. SharePoint that would have to be subscribe to service. Right now that won't be so important. So now 655 will be replaced in any case since it won't be need in the line up with 855 and 825 line-up.

Then I guess 815 is around the corner as well that would drop out the current 600 series. Everyone waiting for a better firmware release for the 655. 825 has faster CPU dual band price is higher, but wholesale warehouse should knock off $25 bucks off retail price.

jdabbs

09-02-2008, 12:00 AM

FCC Exhibits:
D-Link files under the applicant name of "D Link Corporation." For the DIR-825 (KA2DIR825A1), there were several filings, one for each portion of spectrum. Here's the application for 2.4 GHz operation (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=205150&fcc_id=%27KA2DIR825A1%27).

USB speculation:
I don't know where the "subscription" info originates. If you were referring to Sharepoint, that's an entirely unrelated product.

D-Link product strategy:
It's interesting to guess as to what the internals of the DIR-815 would look like, or even if there's a spot for it. The DIR-628 already supports both bands, so the DIR-815 would have to support simultaneous operation, otherwise why would people buy it? Simultaneous operation implies dual radios, which contradicts the primary distinction of the X15 line, low cost.

IMHO, what D-Link should have done was forget the 855 ever existed, keep the third antenna on the DIR-825, release the two-antenna DIR-628 as the DIR-815, and for a theoretical ultra high-end DIR-888 add NAS/print server support (it's more Ubicom's fault than D-Link for lack of feature innovation). If simultaneous dual-band operations becomes cheap enough, put all the parts on one board and call it the DIR-805.

tipstir

09-02-2008, 11:39 AM

Very good observation there JJ about marketing of 855, 825 or (815). But you do agree that 655, 625, 615 will be history in the up coming months. As the 855, 825 take a foot hold on that market. As there would be no need to have those older model implemented any longer.

tipstir

09-02-2008, 03:07 PM

Thanks for those FCC links images do tell more..

thiggins

09-02-2008, 04:30 PM

Inside Story: D-Link DIR-825 vs. DIR-855 (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30568/100/)

jdabbs

09-03-2008, 01:03 AM

D-Link's shop now has an entry for the DIR-825 (on backorder): http://www.dlinkshop.com/product.asp?sku=3880058

The price is $199.99; I wager that's the official MSRP.

tipstir

09-03-2008, 01:10 AM

Thanks JJ.. Too much for that router now I'll wait for Costco to start to sell them at warehouse prices for members. I guess after a few hardware updates before they get out the bugs.

tipstir

09-03-2008, 01:14 AM

I just found 825 for $164.99 in Maine College Campus site store They have 855 for $290.99 Wow crazy prices!
http://cc.its.maine.edu/~maine/cart/look.php?item_id=5162349

Here we go again with unknown USB port: DIR-825 allows you to connect USB-based hard drives and printers to the router and share them with everyone on your network.

tipstir

09-13-2008, 04:55 AM

Amazon is selling these at $158 with free shipping (USPS)
http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DIR-825-Xtreme-4-Port-Gigabit/dp/B001F7HLRC/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1221295886&sr=8-6

Prices coming down... I just got BJ account for my birthday to add to the Sams Club and Costco cards I already have. Let's see if one of the 3 will carry this model. Anymore testing will be great to see the throughput against the DIR-655.

thiggins

09-13-2008, 10:40 AM

Neither one of the sites has the product in stock.

tipstir

09-13-2008, 04:36 PM

Here's the box for it
http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/screen_shot_images/733/209113733_002.jpg

Everyone is saying sold out! They post the have it then later on say sold out!
Marketing this product this way saying they have it then not it's not the good way to do business. I'll keep poking around to see who or when it's available for purchase?

jdabbs

09-13-2008, 05:09 PM

My guess as to why it is listed as out of stock instead of preorder/backorder is because the retailers haven't been provided with a release date yet. "We'll ship it when we get it" isn't nearly as bad as issuing a projected date of release, then failing to deliver once that date passes.

geogecko

09-14-2008, 01:26 AM

I just pre-ordered mine through Now Direct. $152.78 with free shipping. They estimate 5-7 days when it will be in stock.

http://www.nowdirect.com/exec/partInfo/part_detail.tsb?prcpart=DLCDIR-825

thiggins

09-14-2008, 06:54 PM

Remember that the last word I had from D-Link is that they were still testing.
And remember the track record of the DIR-855.

Don't hold your breath on this one...

tipstir

09-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Well until you get your hands on working model for testing then just have to wait this one out for the 825. So everyone just have to buy 655 and stick with A3 hardware and firmware 1.11 for stable network.

geogecko

09-19-2008, 09:26 AM

:confused: Maybe we are getting closer? I got an in-stock notification from D-Link's store this morning at 8:08AM, but when I checked the site at 8:24AM, it shows it is not in stock anymore, so either there were some really fast people on that, or it was a mistake.

On another note, more stores are showing up as having it on their site, some even say in-stock. Amazon has 3 left from Beach Audio, and Techonweb says it will ship in 2-5 days,whatever that means.

Looks like they might actually be shipping this one.

tipstir

09-20-2008, 07:14 PM

techonweb prices seems very low for $141 bucks and you say free shipping ontop of that deal. I would like to know what I am up against before shelling out good money if the wireless has a limiter, which I am hearing from those who have it and the DIR-655 which doesn't have a limiter unless you use firmware 1.20 or higher.

geogecko

09-20-2008, 07:54 PM

So was the limiter put on the 655 because it was supposed to be a cheaper model, similar to how the 825 will be compared to the 855?

tipstir

09-20-2008, 09:00 PM

Not if you use firmware 1.11 with A3 hardware on DIR-655 there is no limiter.

It's either FCC or Wi-Fi alliance requires the limiter now! So if you use DIR-655just use firmware 1.11. Dlink form beta has more info on this. But 825, 855 or higher would have a limiter.

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=2111.0

thiggins

09-21-2008, 08:07 AM

I would like to know what I am up against before shelling out good money if the wireless has a limiter,
What "limiter" are you referring to?

thiggins

09-21-2008, 08:08 AM

tipstir

09-21-2008, 10:24 AM

What "limiter" are you referring to?

good neighbour" feature

Tim someone reported that they were able to get one from Fry Electronics in CA.

reply to tipstir
I live in California and I was able to get one at Fry's Electronics in the city of Burbank. They had 3 in stock... sorry i did not run any bench mark tests and I returned it yesterday once i was fed up being unable to get the relative 10 down 2 up on a LAN connection. The price is 149.99. One notable met ion is that it has these two thicker antennas that say 2.4/5.8 Ghz on the base of the antenna... but worse signal than the 655 and much worse bandwidth. There is something seriously wrong with this product. Anyways i do not have to deal with it anymore.. so that is that

reply to tipstir
My Final Thought On The DIR-825

I did use it and I had many problems. I was very dissatisfied with my individual results of the DIR-825. I will post some detail but I am very happy with reverting to the DIR-655 which is a much better product. I have Verizon Fios. I have an RJ45 setup. I have cat6 wires running. I have my RJ45 connection going to my wan port on my router and I have one LAN out dedicated to a print server one to a Desktop Computer and another to my verizon router which does my STB/Set Top Box functions (Wireless is disabled for the Action Tech). I am supposed to have 10mbs download and 2mbs upload. I get 9700-9950kbs download and 1800-1950kbs upload on my hard lined desktop using Speakeasy.net to measure my speed. This is Using Verizon's crappy Action-Tech router or the wonderful DIR-655 (Keep in mind this is hardlined hardware). When I ran the same speed test on the DIR-825 I had a max upload rate of 450kbs which is atrocious. This was out the wireless on which is irrelevant but I decided to mention this anyways.

Now the wireless tests. The DIR-825's signal strength is not as good as the DIR-655 at the same distance. The 655 out performs the 825 by at least 1 bar once you get past 10 feet. I used (G only) The DIR-655's throughput was AMAZING even at very low signal strength. On the DIR-825 at 10 feet, I managed to get the throughput that I only got with the DIR-655 when I have the lowest signal strength; roughly 6500kbs and below. In fact, i managed to get a higher download rate on the DIR-655 with a very low signal than the DIR-825 at an excellent signal with respective speed tests. Now the stupid upload rate was another issue. I could not even get past 350 which was extremely annoying no matter what I did. These results were the same with or without encryption and I used WPA (and that was very miserable to set up unlike the 655/the laptop kept continuously trying to authenticate without doing so. It was hell to get the DIR-825 working with WPA). Oh one last mention, I could only get the DIR-825 to give me 6500kbs when further than 10 feet on only one channel. That channel is channel 5. I got less than 1mbs/1000kbs DL on all other channels when further than 10 feet and less than 7000kbs/7mbs when next to the router on 10 out 11 channels. It was not for a lack of trying on my behalf. but this router has some serious issues.

I called Dlink and they were very unhelpful. All they attempted to do was change a feature under advanced from 10/100 Ethernet port to 100 only. And they were like "You are the first person to call about this router and I am sorry but there is not much we can do. you have to wait for a firmware update or return the product" and they did not have a time table for a new firmware release. I was shocked at how unhelpful these techs are. VERY UNHELPFUL. I do not have the patience to wait while (incompetent in this case) DLINK gets a firmware update God knows when while I go through hell trying to figure out the problems with an unfinished product.

The 655 has tons of pages of tech support information when you google it. The reason I stumbled on this board was not to start a conversation although that would be interesting from time to time. but it was to get help with the 825. But instead all I found is the specs of the DIR-825 and people drooling over obtaining a DIR-825. I feel sorry for everyone that will be getting this product with the garbage performance it gave me.

All in all, I am more than content I got rid of the DIR-825 in favor of the DIR-655. I am unwilling to invest in something that will not work to its full specs.

For everyone who purchased the DIR-655 and recommended it, you made a great choice.

For all that are waiting for their DIR-825, good luck because you will need it.

My suggestion is to return the product and buy it when a better firmware is out for it. If you really want to own a DIR-825, Good luck! It really pales in comparison to the DIR-655 in hardware and in firmware.

I did not care to run benchmarks on a product that did not even give me average internet DL/UP speeds based on my averages with the other routers I used.

geogecko

09-22-2008, 02:26 PM

I cancelled my order from NowDirect, due to some of the early reports of this router, and secondly, because it did not look like it was going to ship anytime soon.

They cancelled it this morning, then just now sent me an e-mail, saying they got some in today, and if I wanted it, to resubmit my order, and they would have it packaged and shipped today.

So, if you want one Tim, there is an opportunity to get one. I'm going to wait for a review right now, based on some of the other experiences I've seen with these routers...

thndr

09-23-2008, 12:07 PM

I got one at Fry's Electronics in CA also. Seems to work ok, but I don't have a fast enough connection to stress the LAN-WAN interface (only DSL, 3M/512k of which I get full speed).

For the WLAN 2.4GHz to WLAN 5GHz, using a DAP-1522 at 5GHz and my laptop at 2.4GHz, I was getting about 16Mbps sustained. The DIR-825 page showed signal rates of 60% at 2.4GHz and 35% at 5GHz, with the DAP and DIR at about 60ft thru a few walls. One thing that probably hurt my throughput were the other 802.11g devices on the that were talking at the same time. I'll play with it some more, plus placement.

WLAN 5GHz to a linux machine on a 100Mbps ethernet line, I was getting about
19Mbps sustained both ways (up and down). Same setup as above.

Router options are better too. Had no issues getting WPA2-PSK AES up on both channels, and the Guest WLANs are an interesting option too. I only enabled them quickly to see how they worked, but they allow a separate SSID to only access the internet, not the private LAN devices. Very painless and smooth setup.

geogecko

09-23-2008, 12:21 PM

Interesting. While 19MBPS (152mbps) isn't that close to 300mbps, it would for sure leave my WRT54G in the dust. Are current non-dual band routers capable of getting anywhere close to the 300mbps with encryption turned on?

I'm interested in some more testing before I buy though. I've bought things early before, and been burned, so I think since I've waited this long, a little longer isn't going to kill me.

snoopy3525

09-23-2008, 12:29 PM

Hey there. I'm new to this forum but was looking into this router also.

Was doing some browsing. Not sure if you have Thundr, but new firmware came out yesterday on the d-link website that supposedly increased performance for this router.

Any chance you could do a test when you have the time please?

pogiboi

09-23-2008, 12:43 PM

I just picked this router up yesterday at my local Fry's electronics in Houston, TX. They had about 5 total when i arrived there. I previously had a Linksys wrt610n which was very disappointing. I plan on having my N network reserved to my TV/Tivo/NAS and my G network for everything else. The Linksys simply could not keep a stable connection to any of my devices. For my entertainment system i had a Linksys N bridge connected to a switch. The bridge would lose connection every 5 minutes or whenever a wireless G device was turned on. My notebook would lose connection at least once every hour.

The dir-825 was a different story. First off the amount of control given to a user is much more advanced than the Linksys gui offered. I have yet to drop a single connection over 18 hours of use. Haven't done any throughput tests but it seems to match what the 610n did. Signal also seems to be about par with the 610n. If you want a STABLE dual band router that can use both bands at once, the dir-825 is the answer.

I am still using version 1.00

tipstir

09-23-2008, 04:04 PM

On the box there should be a white space on the side? Or in the GUI Admin screen? What does it say for HARDWARE / FIRMWARE?

pogiboi

09-23-2008, 04:30 PM

Product Page: DIR-825
Hardware Version: A1
Firmware Version: 1.00

thndr

09-24-2008, 02:32 AM

Interesting. While 19MBPS (152mbps) isn't that close to 300mbps, it would for sure leave my WRT54G in the dust. Are current non-dual band routers capable of getting anywhere close to the 300mbps with encryption turned on?

Sorry, I meant 19Mbps (bits per second). It's actually a bit low, but still faster than the X-550 it replaced for the same location. I'm not sure if it's a function of the DAP-1522 or the router. If I get some time I'll play with it some more and report back.

Stephan

09-24-2008, 03:36 AM

Last night I was testing my DIR-825 and i noticed that as i had to reboot the unit based on settings that I changed, I was getting different results on speedtest.net as well as Speakeasy.net/speedtest.

Basically, i noticed that when the unit is testing the gateway connection, that it comes up with different results that affect the speed (or tests). I also noticed that the QoS engine was limiting the upload speed as well.

so after rebooting the unit several times to get the better download speeds and manually setting the uplink speed in the QoS section to 3072 this is what i now get from most tests.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/328242981.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/328242277.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/328243538.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

prior to these reboots, i was getting results as low as 10K kb/s and uploads of 284 kb/s.

Updated the Firmware to version 1.01 and the QoS uplink test did better but still had a value of 2560 which i changed manually for 3840 which I got on a previous test.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/328259364.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

For certain, when the DIR-825 is testing the Gateway, from test to test of it... it definitely impacts the speedtests.

tipstir

09-24-2008, 11:18 AM

http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DIR-825#apps

The 1.00 is the shipping firmware
The 1.01 is the latest firmware has some fixes already!

¤ Enhanced HT/40 performance.
¤ Added SharePort. 9/22/2008

Prior post, clear out the browser cache before you run your next speedtest, as the results will vary.. Good speeds there from the 350MHz CPU in your 825. If it was 500MHz CPU and you had cable modem that can hit 43,000KB/s then you numbers would go up higher. I've tested that when I had one N with the CPU 500MHz and RAM 32MB

WZR2-G300N CPU 500MHz
http://www.speedtest.net/result/198833182.png

DIR-655 A3 1.11 CPU 275MHz
http://www.speedtest.net/result/327156998.png

geogecko

09-24-2008, 11:24 AM

Yep, Snoopy already pointed this out, but he forgot to mention SharePort. I downloaded the manual for SharePort and it looks kind of interesting. The thing that doesn't look cool, is that from what it says, only ONE computer can connect to a device at a time, which from what I can tell, means that if you wanted to share a USB flash drive or hard drive, only one computer can be connected to it at a time, therefore, that computer has to disconnect before another computer can use it. Kind of stinks, IMO. But, the printer sharing looks cool.

The other interesting thing, is that they show two devices connected, so would that mean you could hook up a USB hub to the router, and run multiple devices (scanner, printer, and USB drive) at the same time?

tipstir

09-24-2008, 11:26 AM

You should be able to run USB 2.0 High Speed HUB. I just ordered a USB 2.0 10/100 Print Server to use with my 4 port USB 2.0 High Speed Hub dirt cheap. I'll use that even if the USB can be use in the same matter. By-the-way those here who still have DIR-655 the latest beta firmware is allowing us to have these features with the USB too and SharePoint, Secure Spot too.

thiggins

09-24-2008, 03:21 PM

D-Link sent a DIR-825 and DWA-160 B1. I have started it on a stress test with two clients (DWA-160 A1 on 2.4 GHz radio; DWA-160 B1 on 5 GHz radio) and will let it run for at least a few hours.

A few quick observations:
- Router came with 1.01 firmware loaded
- QoS is enabled by default and is set to auto-detect uplink speed
- Both radios are defaulted to 20MHz bandwidth operation

For the test, I set both radios to Auto 20/40. I'm getting around 65 Mbps downlink on the 5GHz radio and 36 Mbps on the 2.4GHz radio, running IxChariot throughput script w/ TCP/IP.

SharePort is basically a USB server that requires you to run a client app. So it's not like the print or drive sharing on the Linksys routers.

debaucher

09-24-2008, 03:21 PM

Ahh, now I am not sure what to do.

I was waiting on this as the 855 never showed up, but with the initial results not looking too promising, I am wondering if I should save the cash and get a single band 655 or just bite the bullet and get a dual band 825 and hope it will get better with firmware updates, settings etc..

D.

thiggins

09-24-2008, 03:25 PM

If you don't need dual-band (simultaneous or not), go with the 655. It has been out for awhile and so has had time for bugs to be shaken out. Cheaper too.

geogecko

09-24-2008, 03:34 PM

Am I confused or something?

Isn't Wireless N theoretically supposed to be 300mbps? Or are we talking different terms here?

If 65mbps is reality, why would I want to upgrade a Wireless G router that is 54mbps?

As a side note, isn't the DAP-1555 a dual band, simultanious extender? This would allow it to operate using both of the SSID's of the DIR-825, correct? And the DWA-160, is it only dual band, but not simultanious, so you pick either 2.4GHz or 5GHz?

thiggins

09-24-2008, 03:43 PM

Isn't Wireless N theoretically supposed to be 300mbps? Or are we talking different terms here?
Both the 300 Mbps and 54 Mbps are maximum link (PHY) rates. They are the equivalent of 100 Mbps for Ethernet.

But unlike Ethernet, wireless has a great deal of variability and protocol overhead that significantly reduces actual, usable throughput. I suggest you read through How To Choose the Right Wireless LAN for You (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30542/228/) .

If 65mbps is reality, why would I want to upgrade a Wireless G router that is 54mbps?
The 65 Mbps is actual throughput (I think). Standard 802.11g has a best case actual throughput of around 20 Mbps. So upgrading to draft 11n can provide around a 3X speed increase in this case.

As a side note, isn't the DAP-1555 a dual band, simultanious extender? This would allow it to operate using both of the SSID's of the DIR-825, correct? And the DWA-160, is it only dual band, but not simultanious, so you pick either 2.4GHz or 5GHz?
The DAP-1522 and DAP-1555 are dual band, but single radio. And dual-band clients or wireless bridges connect on only one band at a time.

geogecko

09-24-2008, 04:04 PM

Okay, so that makes since now. I assume adding encryption reduces that throughput rate as well.

Regarding the DAP-1555 and DAP-1522. I bought the DAP-1555 under the assumption that it was dual radio, because on the product page, it says, "2.4GHz and 5.0GHz," whereas the DAP-1522 says, "2.4GHz or 5.0GHz." I think this is misleading, and if it is true that both of these only have one radio built into them, then what is the difference between the two units, other than that one has external antennas, and the other one has internal antennas?

If that is the case, there may be no need for me to have a dual radio router, unless I want a dedicated connection between my living room SageTV HD Extender (on the DAP-1555) and SageTV HTPC (hard wired to the router of choice), and have another connection for use on the office PC (DWA-160). Of course, I also have a SageTV SD Extender, but that is running off of a Buffalo Wireless G Ethernet Extender, so it will need to be on 2.4GHz to begin with... I guess I could force all media to be on 2.4GHz, and dedicate the 5.0GHz to the office PC, but it seems kind of like a waste.

Thanks Tim for clarifying, and I'm sorry this got a little off topic. I guess I should have done a little more research before buying both the DWA-160 and DAP-1555. I could always upgrade the Buffalo Extender to a DAP-1522 I guess.

thiggins

09-24-2008, 04:17 PM

Regarding the DAP-1555 and DAP-1522. I bought the DAP-1555 under the assumption that it was dual radio, because on the product page, it says, "2.4GHz and 5.0GHz," whereas the DAP-1522 says, "2.4GHz or 5.0GHz."
Manufacturers do not make it easy for consumers, I agree. That's why I do what I do here on SmallNetBuilder.

Unless you see "simultaneous dual band" or "dual radio" in a product description, assume it has one radio.

See this article (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30442/100/) for a summary of the differences between the DAP-1522 and 1555.

geogecko

09-24-2008, 04:38 PM

Ah, wish I would have found your site earlier! Thanks for the article links. Also one thing I really enjoy about your site, that others do not do, or find much value in, is having printable article links. I don't always like to read things online, and it is nice to be able to print them off in one step, if I need to.

debaucher

09-24-2008, 07:46 PM

If you don't need dual-band (simultaneous or not), go with the 655. It has been out for awhile and so has had time for bugs to be shaken out. Cheaper too.

Thanks for the response.

I am not sure if I NEED the 5GHz band but as I live in an apartment complex with a LOT of people using g routers I thought the 5GHz band might be useful in making sure I don't get any interference (be pretty much the only one using it in the area.. for now that is).

But, if that will not significantly improve things for me then I should just save the cash and get the DIR-655.

I do need to buy one as my last router just bit the dust.

D.

thiggins

09-25-2008, 08:50 AM

A crowded 2.4GHz band is a good reason to move to 5GHz. Just be aware that your range will be reduced because 5GHz signals experience higher attenuation when they pass through walls.

You could always buy a dual-band single radio draft 11n router and an inexpensive 11g router to cover 2.4GHz.

tipstir

09-25-2008, 09:56 AM

Tim,

You got one great! Now some real testing on 825! Can you compare it with the DIR-655 and DGL-4500. Thanks in advance!

1. Gig connections (although you have PCI-E and not PCI)
2. Wireless G and N signal strength
3. Max Connections Peers

Since the DIR-655 comes with 3x 2dbi ANT what are the DIR-825 2x ?dbi ANT?

USB I still get this idea it's not going to be what we all want from USB, print server, USB-NAS or USB-External HDD server. Pipe dream or idea!

thiggins

10-01-2008, 11:15 AM

I finished testing and posted the results in the Wireless Charts (http://smallnetbuilder.com/wireless-charts/) (select the Open Air benchmarks).

Not very impressive with a DWA-160 B1 client.

Full review is coming, but there isn't a lot more to say since the routing features are essentially the same as most other of the gigabit LAN D-Links.

peste19

10-01-2008, 12:00 PM

waiting for the review :)

arklab

10-01-2008, 04:59 PM

I just got both the DIR-855 and DIR-825 (I didn't know the 855 would be available).
So, both are still in the shrink wrap - so one can be returned.

thiggins: I found an interesting lead on improving the DWA-160 B1 client performance over on the DLink Tech site.
Seems the radio maker has a new driver on its website that DLink has not gotten around to posting yet!
Here is the link: LINK (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=1986.0)
and
RALINK (http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html)

On the down side, no mater what DLink claims, still no update for DIR-855 firmware!

thiggins

10-01-2008, 05:03 PM

thiggins: I found an interesting lead on improving the DWA-160 B1 client performance over on the DLink Tech site.
Seems the radio maker has a new driver on its website that DLink has not gotten around to posting yet!
Here is the link: LINK (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=1986.0)
and
RALINK (http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html)

Thanks for the tip. But I review only with vendor released and supported drivers and firmware.

geogecko

10-01-2008, 05:38 PM

So is there anything wrong with A1 hardware on the DWA-160? That happens to be the one I have.

thiggins

10-01-2008, 06:59 PM

So is there anything wrong with A1 hardware on the DWA-160? That happens to be the one I have.
I ran some same-room tests with the A1 and its latest driver and it seemed ok. I'll cover that in the review.

I'm testing with the B1 since it is the latest.

thiggins

10-03-2008, 11:59 AM

D-Link DIR-825 Xtreme N Dual Band Gigabit Router: Second Time's the Charm? (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30588/96/)

geogecko

10-12-2008, 10:57 PM

So if we wanted high performance dual band simultaneous, buying two DIR-628's would be the best option?

thiggins

10-13-2008, 08:56 AM

So if we wanted high performance dual band simultaneous, buying two DIR-628's would be the best option?
Not really. That product had high throughput variation.
I'd probably do a DIR-655 for 2.4GHz and maybe a DAP-1522 for 5GHz.

geogecko

10-13-2008, 03:42 PM

Great, thanks Tim, I think I'll go that route, a little more expensive than just getting a DIR-825, but if the performance was really that bad, I'd rather have dedicated boxes for each network.

Kind of a stinker about these dual-radio boxes.

jdabbs

10-14-2008, 02:23 AM

Newegg has the DIR-825 as one of its 24-hour deals; $130 shipped (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127258&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL101408&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL101408-_-WirelessRouters-_-L5C-_-33127258) with promo code EMCBABECD. Market price otherwise is $150 (http://smallnetbuilder.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=91442880/search=DIR-825/st=sort/sort_type=bottomline).

Bullitt5094

10-20-2008, 02:27 PM

Bestbuy currently has the DIR-655 for $109 and the 825 for $129. I don't mind the extra $20 if the 825 is a better unit even if I don't use all the features now. If it isn't a better unit, I certainly don't want to pay more, for less! Which unit should I go with?

geogecko

10-20-2008, 02:46 PM

Read just a few posts back, I basically asked the same question.

The DIR-825 seems to have been a let down. I just bought the DIR-655 from Amazon for $94 shipped yesterday, and it just shipped UPS today. Eventually, I plan on buying the DAP-1522 to get my 5GHz band up and running, but just having the 2.4GHz band will bridge me over for now. My main reason for wanting the 5GHz band, was to dedicate that band for media only, and use the 2.4GHz band for data, which happens to be just across the room right now. Also, I wanted to reduce the amount of 2.4GHz transmission in the house, as our baby monitor runs on that same frequency, and has a lot of interference, but some of that is partially due to our cordless phones, but I think most of the noise is coming from WiFi. If I shut down the routers and adapters, most of the noise goes away...

ellinj

10-23-2008, 12:34 AM

Does anyone know if this router supports bridging mode? I want to disable NAT and just use it as an access point.

thiggins

10-23-2008, 06:53 AM

Does anyone know if this router supports bridging mode? I want to disable NAT and just use it as an access point.
It does not have an Access Point mode. But any wireless router can be configured as an AP.
How To Convert a Wireless Router into an Access Point (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30338/228/)

ellinj

10-23-2008, 07:21 AM

It does not have an Access Point mode. But any wireless router can be configured as an AP.
How To Convert a Wireless Router into an Access Point (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30338/228/)

I knew about this method but you loose an ethernet port this way. Any suggestions on a dual band router that does have an access point mode?

geogecko

10-23-2008, 09:13 AM

Tim, I know it's a little off topic now, but I just got the DIR-655 last night, and finally got it all setup. Way more settings than my WRT54G, even running Tomato. I still want to sort through everything just to see what is there.

Just wanted to say thanks for your suggestions. This new setup seems to be working great. The real test will come when I try and stream HD content from the server to an HD extender...

One thing, I assume that I want the router in Auto 20/40 MHz mode, correct? It defaults to 20.

thiggins

10-23-2008, 09:31 AM

One thing, I assume that I want the router in Auto 20/40 MHz mode, correct? It defaults to 20.
It defaults to 20 because that is the "legacy friendly" mode required for Wi-Fi certification. Setting to Auto 20/40 could cause interference with neighboring 11b/g networks.

Testing has shown that a router in channel-bonded 40MHz mode won't reach as far as when it is in 20MHz mode. Channel bonding needs a stronger signal to work well.

geogecko

10-23-2008, 10:06 AM

Any more reading material on this particular feature?

It seems as though there was not a recommendation in your post, since there are several variables involved...

thiggins

10-23-2008, 10:36 AM

Go to the Wireless Charts and select the Open Air Benchmarks, do a Compare Benchmarks on a product and select the 20 and 40 MHz modes.

For 5 GHz, you'll frequently see no connection in Locations D,E,F in 40MHz mode, where there is in 20MHz.

For 2.4GHz, you may see a connection in 40MHz mode in these more difficult locations, but throughput will be less.

There is no set recommendation, other than "do no harm", i.e. if you have close-by neighboring wireless LANs, do not use Auto 20/40. If you have clear airspace, use what works best for your application and environment.

geogecko

10-23-2008, 10:55 AM

Thanks Tim, will take a look into that.

Why does the 40MHz mode effect neighboring networks? I assume that the 40MHz mode is widening the channel, which can effect neighboring channels (i.e., if on channel 8, it could effect channels 7 and 9)?

There are several networks in our neighborhood, so I guess I should just set it back to it's default.

thiggins

10-23-2008, 12:19 PM

Why does the 40MHz mode effect neighboring networks?
See this article (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30224/100/) and this spectral plot (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/27008/100/1/3/).

geogecko

10-23-2008, 01:57 PM

Interesting. So it may be wise to keep my WRT54G running anyway, especially since I have one Buffalo Ethernet Extender and an iPhone using 11g. That is too bad, since I had originally planned on upgrading the Ethernet Extender to a DAP-1522, but until we start seeing phones with 11n chips in them, it won't make a difference to the overall network.

I guess that makes since to me then. Thanks for your help, and these great articles you put together. I need to start looking at the front page a little more to keep updated on this kind of thing.

geogecko

10-23-2008, 10:58 PM

If I plug the WAN port of the WRT54G into one of the LAN ports on the DIR-655, I am not able to access the admin of the WRT54G. In order for it to work, I have to hook the LAN of one to the LAN of the other, is this correct?

I've set the WRT54G (DHCP is off) to
IP: 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1
DNS: 192.168.1.1

With the DIR-655 setup as 192.168.1.1

jdabbs

10-24-2008, 01:26 AM

If you have the routers cascaded WAN<>LAN, you'd avoid NAT issues by using different subnets (DIR-655 on 192.168.0.1 & 54G on 1.1). With your current configuration, you wouldn't be able to access the admin of the 54G from a client connected to the 655 unless you had remote access permitted in the 54G's config.

You could keep both devices on the same subnet and avoid the NAT issue by connecting it LAN<>LAN. That's probably what you were trying to do in the first place.

geogecko

10-24-2008, 01:33 AM

Yep, I think you are right. I have them connected LAN<>LAN now, and things seem to be working.

One thing though, I kept having the WRT54G AP drop out all the time. The only thing I finally noticed after hours of tinkering, was that I still had the MAC address cloned for my PC (because my PC was originally used to setup our ISP, so it had to be cloned in the router), in the WRT54G, so both it and the DIR-655 looked to have the same MAC address. I don't know if that is what was causing the problem, but I haven't seen the AP drop out since I set it's MAC address back to the default...

Darn, nope, still dropping out for some reason...can't figure that out...

jdabbs

10-24-2008, 01:49 AM

Could be a general instability issue, but I'd also try to identify any interference.

thiggins

10-24-2008, 06:47 AM

What is the DIR-655's DHCP server range?

geogecko

10-24-2008, 10:55 AM

192.168.1.100 - 210

thiggins

10-24-2008, 11:05 AM

192.168.1.100 - 210
Thanks. Looks like the cause isn't an IP address conflict.

geogecko

10-24-2008, 11:30 AM

I think I've been through just about everything. Are or were, there certain versions of the WRT54G that just couldn't do an AP? I guess it could be Tomato. I could try reinstalling the original Linksys firmware, but I'm not sure if it had AP capabilities or not.

I'm on the verge of just getting rid of the 54G and running it all on the D-Link. I know that it would be better if I could get this working, but the amount of time going into this is just crazy.

It shouldn't matter if the SSID's are different, but the encryption keys are the same, right?

geogecko

10-24-2008, 11:40 AM

Here are my AP settings, minus the encryption key.

geogecko

10-24-2008, 11:46 AM

Anything in here that looks odd?

http://www.thebentzhome.com/pics/misc/Tomato_Advanced_Routing.jpg

geogecko

10-24-2008, 03:29 PM

I think I finally figured it out. It was a combination of one or two things. I changed the encryption from WAP2 Only to WAP/WAP2. Secondly, I did a site survey, and found a fairly strong public school network that was on channel 1. I switched to channel 11, and so far, haven't had the dropouts that I was having before.

Back closer on track. Are there any free applications to test the throughput of a router, such as the DIR-655 to a bridge, such as the DAP-1555? I am trying to stream a show from ABC.com, and get a lot of stuttering. The PC running it is fairly decent, dual core AMD platform, with a 6600GT video card, so I do not think the PC is the limiting factor here, considering we use this PC to watch HD content all the time...

Bullitt5094

10-24-2008, 03:54 PM

I returned my 655 and purchased an 825. I have to believe the hardware in the 825 is better and any problems will be sorted-out shortly with new updates. I updated to 1.1 immediately, did basic set-up and the 825's worked perfectly for two days now. Without anything but seat-of-the-pants usage, the 825 range and speed seems to be better than the really good 655. I'm using this in conjunction with another 615 router I have covering another part of the house. So far I'm very happy with it. Granted, I'm not a network engineer or power user, but with three laptops and five desktops and a PS3 online in the house, I guess I qualify as a high utilization user, at least! :rolleyes:

farkit55

11-09-2008, 07:43 PM

I live in an apartment complex with a lot of wireless noise including at least 17 wireless networks in the 2.4ghz spectrum. Thought only about 4 or 5 have above 2% signal strength. The 825 performs TERRIBLY in this setting. mostly because the damn thing constantly reboots itself. I've tried 2 different 825's and have the same problem with both.

Clients are currently a dlink DWA-160 and an airlink ap431 running in client mode but this happens with any combination of clients (rosewill rnx-g100/iphone/xbox360 and serveral others in combination and solo). Heres a copy of the log from the current 825

[INFO] Sun Nov 09 15:23:41 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:55:30 2008 Above message repeated 6 times
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:45:32 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 secured and linked
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:45:29 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 associated
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:45:29 2008 Above message repeated 1 times
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:45:07 2008 2.4GHz Band mssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000000000000 disconnected for reason: Authentication Failed
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:45:00 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 associated
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:44:59 2008 Above message repeated 3 times
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:44:35 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:44:02 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000000000000 disconnected for reason: Authentication Failed
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:44:01 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:43:56 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 associated
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:43:55 2008 Above message repeated 3 times
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:43:27 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:32:48 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 secured and linked
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:32:45 2008 2.4GHz Band myssid: Wireless system with MAC address 000CF1E77649 associated
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:32:26 2008 Above message repeated 5 times
[INFO] Sun Nov 09 14:32:24 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart

...

[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:50 2008 Above message repeated 1 times
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:43 2008 5GHz Band: Wireless link is up
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:42 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless link is up
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 5GHz Band: Wireless link is down
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 5GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 5GHz Band: Disconnect all stations
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless link is down
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 2.4GHz Band: Disconnect all stations
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:31 2008 All Wireless shut down
[INFO] Sat Nov 08 19:08:29 2008 2.4GHz Band: Wireless restart

this happens with both the 1.00 and 1.01 firmware. Current clients are about 20 ft and 30ft from the router. I am also getting about 1 out of every 100 packets either lost or delayed up to 4 seconds from both clients in both 2.4ghz and 5ghz networks.

I've tried pretty much every available option for the wireless/security settings including turning either one or the other radio off and the damn thing still reboots the wireless radio that is turned on every once in a while.

I could maybe deal with the signal quality problem but it is completely pathetic that any networking device should be programmed to reboot itself like this without actually showing in the log why it is rebooting.

tipstir

11-09-2008, 08:57 PM

smoothy

05-05-2009, 11:29 AM

hello,

i am thinking of purchasing this router, and it will be my first entry into the wifi market. i currently have a belkin 54g thingy that was supplied by my ISP. however it constantly needs rebooting as it reports no internet connection or it will stop the PS3 or xbox from getting the internet.

I have a couple of macs in various shapes and sizes, 2 of which support wireless N, and another 2 just support G. I also have a holiday let away from my main building that currently (unless you hang out of the window) is out of range.

I also live in an old english farmhouse, and the walls are 1.5meters thick! Due to this i have 2 Belkin range extenders (54g) to help extend the range round the house.

With this background in mind, i was hoping some of the gurus on here could help me with a couple of questions.

First off: Can i keep using the current range extenders i currently have?

2: Can i file share between the two different bands? Ie, whilst on my new imac (N band), i may want to access some files of the media mac mini, which would be on the G band.

3: Can i replace the current antenna for the 5ghz band with a outdoor one so i can get coverage over to the holiday let?

Thanks for any help received

thiggins

05-05-2009, 12:36 PM

First off: Can i keep using the current range extenders i currently have?
If they don't require the use of WDS bridging/repeating, yes, they should work.

2: Can i file share between the two different bands? Ie, whilst on my new imac (N band), i may want to access some files of the media mac mini, which would be on the G band.
Yes. The file sharing protocol doesn't care about the flavor of connection used (Ethernet, powerline, wireless). As long as there is a connection, file and printer sharing will work.

3: Can i replace the current antenna for the 5ghz band with a outdoor one so i can get coverage over to the holiday let?
Doubtful. Both antennas are dual-band, so you would need to use a dual-band antenna. Not easy to find.
You would probably be better off setting up another (11g) AP specifically to do the link.

smoothy

05-06-2009, 08:40 AM

If they don't require the use of WDS bridging/repeating, yes, they should work.

Yes. The file sharing protocol doesn't care about the flavor of connection used (Ethernet, powerline, wireless). As long as there is a connection, file and printer sharing will work.

Doubtful. Both antennas are dual-band, so you would need to use a dual-band antenna. Not easy to find.
You would probably be better off setting up another (11g) AP specifically to do the link.

Could you please explain what WDS is? All i know about my access points is that they are belkin, i had to put my SSID into the access point's web page, and tell my router the mac addresses of the access points.

The reason i asked about file sharing was the fact that the different bands had different SSIDS, which made me think they were infact completely separate sharing only the internet connection.

Having another access point could be possible, i would want the N band going over there as i do use that for a studio when things are quiet. how much significance will an access point also have on response time for online gaming? Also due to the wall thickness i may have to have another access point in the actual holiday home as well hence why an external antenna would be best. I thought the antennas were labeled on the DIR-825, why would this be the case if they were both dual band?

Thanks for your help, i appreciate it!

thiggins

05-06-2009, 10:11 AM

WDS stands for Wireless Distribution System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System). From the description of what you are doing to connect everything up, i.e. entering MAC addresses, you are using WDS.

Gaming over a wireless connection can be a problem if the game requires fast response. Draft 11n especially has high throughput / latency variation and can have oeriodic 1-2 second throughput dropouts. 11g has lower throughput, but it tends to be more consistent. However, it too can suffer from the same periodic throughput dropouts.

In your situation, you certainly should use external high-gain antennas at both ends of the connection. Consider a combination AP/panel antenna like the Engenius EOC-3220 (http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1622). It's only 11g, but will probably provide a more reliable link than cobbling together something with draft 11n routers.

The 825's antennas are labeled 2.4 / 5 GHz, i.e. dual-band. Go look at this article (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30568/100/) for details on the DIR-825's innards.

smoothy

05-08-2009, 07:12 AM