Extremely Disappointing: Apple Airport Extreme Reviewed [Archive]

nuno.licapinto

10-20-2009, 06:44 PM

Apple released today the new revision of the AirPort Extreme.

Do you guys think you will be able to test it this time?

"Even faster performance.
Based on the IEEE 802.11n specification, AirPort Extreme uses a technology called multiple-input multiple-output (MIMO) to transmit multiple data streams simultaneously. The result? AirPort Extreme delivers data transfer speeds up to five times those of 802.11g wireless networks — while achieving up to twice the range. And improvements in antenna design give you up to 50 percent better Wi-Fi performance and up to 25 percent better range than with the previous-generation AirPort Extreme Base Station."

That would be nice, I've been planning about buying a new router, but I just won't buy it until someone does a nice review, and I don't find any review even comparable to the ones you make here at SmallNetBuilder.

I've just registered the forums to gently ask for that :)

Thanks
Nuno

ATB

10-29-2009, 05:47 PM

I would also like to see a review here.

Dear Apple, please send the review unit to Smallnetbuilder! I and lots of readers have no valid reference point for how the newer airport extremes stack up against the other networking products. This site does a great job of not only testing products under the same test conditions, but also touching on other important features, such a setup software, etc. All of the other major manufacturers' networking products are reviewed here; not being reviewed here is a big red flag for me.

Magsy

10-30-2009, 10:13 AM

I have one and I think you desperately need to buy/borrow one to test because it is the fastest thing I have ever seen by quite some margin.

Using an Intel 4965AGN I am getting at least an average of 16-18MB/s (megabytes) with many peaks of 20MB/s, which is way faster than anything else on the market. This is a Win 2k8 > Win 7 transfer, monitored with at least three different utilities and no matter what I do, my speed is always above 15MB/s.

thiggins

10-30-2009, 11:43 AM

Thanks for the thought. But it would be more effective to post here:
http://store.apple.com/us/questions/product/MC340LL/A?mco=MTMzNzk0MDA

zjohnr

10-31-2009, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the thought. But it would be more effective to post here:
http://store.apple.com/us/questions/product/MC340LL/A?mco=MTMzNzk0MDA
OK, Tim. I tried to post a question (below) to the Apple Store questions board you pointed towards. But since Apple apparently prescreens the posts, I have no idea if it will actually show up or not.

This is also the other discussion board (why on earth do they do this?? :confused:) at http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa.

You need to create/derive a forum ID from your "Apple ID" in order to post there. I may do that later.

-irrational john
Where can I find product reviews for Airport Extreme?

I usually rely on the reviews from www.smallnetbuilder.com since I find them to be both very thorough and also very objective and thoughtful. However, it appears that Apple decided to stop submitting their Airport products to smallnetbuilder to be reviewed.

I am basing this comment on this article at this link:
forumsDOTsmallnetbuilderDOTcom/showthread.php?t=2375

Is it true that Apple no longer allows smallnetbuilder to review its Airport products. If so, why?

-irrational john

* Asked by JM from ITHACA
* Oct 31, 2009

thiggins

10-31-2009, 04:31 PM

Thanks for trying, at least, John.

thiggins

11-05-2009, 04:15 PM

I broke down and bought a new AirPort Extreme (MC340LL/A), mainly because I wanted to check my theory about a stealth three-stream upgrade.

I just finished testing and will post a review soon. But short story is that I'm not impressed. So anyone on the fence about it vs. a WNDR3700 (or anything else)... go for the anything else.

zjohnr

11-05-2009, 10:12 PM

Back in May 2009 in a previous thread about a previous airport (http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?p=10634) which you also didn't get a loaner from Apple to review I mentioned I was curious what, if anything, the following claim in another review might mean.

"Inside Apple’s AirPort Extreme, Time Capsule updates" by Glenn Fleishman, Macworld.com (http://www.macworld.com/article/139168/airport_timecapsule_changes.html)Normally, Wi-Fi devices choose somewhat arbitrarily which base station they connect to when multiple base stations share the same network name for roaming purposes. Wi-Fi adapters typically try to get the best connection, such as that with the best signal strength, but standard Wi-Fi doesn’t offer better choices.

Apple senior product manager Jai Chulani, who focuses on the company’s Wi-Fi line, said that Apple had modified that for its hardware. He explained that an algorithm looks at the signal strength and also the available network speed to determine which band’s network to join.
Just wanted to toss this out there in case you might be able to come up with a way to "test" whatever the heck that Apple product manager may have been alluding to. I realize it could be a real hassle to set up a multiple network connection scenario. But this sort of vague hand waving claim to superiority bugs me. I'm still not really sure what the heck he is claiming they've supposedly tweaked in the Airport to supposedly make it connect "better".

Maybe it's just me though ... :rolleyes:

-irrational john

thiggins

11-06-2009, 08:42 AM

It's marketing blather.

Any client is going to try to attach to the strongest AP. If you have a dual-band adapter and both bands are enabled, it will search both bands.

nuno.licapinto

11-06-2009, 08:51 PM

thiggins

11-09-2009, 01:43 PM

Routing and wireless results have been posted in the charts. Review in progress.

ATB

11-10-2009, 10:14 AM

Thanks much Tim for your review of the latest Airport Extreme. You have saved many of us $ and more importantly a fair amount of aggravation.

drewcwsj

11-10-2009, 11:37 AM

Nice to know that MIMO is just marketing hype.

One thing on your testing. Could you add in something like a VOIP adapter (via a wireless bridge) in addition to the streaming test? I'm curious if these wireless access points have any QOS capabilities that actually work. Moving big files is nice but that isn't the day to day home networking usage model.

thetoad30

11-10-2009, 11:39 AM

To all,

Apple products are sold via Amazon.com, and at least for me (I'm a Prime member) there are no restock fees for returning a "defective" item. Returning an item you just don't want will result in losing shipping charges I think, though.

Just a thought in case you want to skip the hoopla of Apple Stores.

Secondly, I'd be very interested in the last dual-band Extreme. I understand you probably are very bitter right now towards buying another one, but from what I can tell by your reviews, the previous generation is MUCH better than this one. I'm surprised at your results, though not questioning them.

Thanks for the review... hopefully there will be some answers soon as to why the poor performance.

thiggins

11-10-2009, 11:46 AM

I understand you probably are very bitter right now towards buying another oneNot bitter. But the product has gotten enough coverage, especially on my own dime.

thiggins

11-10-2009, 11:49 AM

It's not MIMO that's at fault. Without it, 11N would not be possible and there are plenty of other better-performing N routers.

Unlikely that I'll be adding additional tests for wireless routers. They take way to long to review as it is. Sorry.

DaveMcLain

11-10-2009, 02:09 PM

Interesting article. I was always under the impression that Apple simply bought their routers and other wireless equipment from someone else and then repackaged/rebranded it as their own but I see that's not the case.

I find it strange that they require you to use a software application in order to configure the device. Does any other company do that with a router? I honestly thought they were all equipped with a administration page that could be accessed using a browser no matter what computing platform you're using. What a strange approach.

wifi dude

11-10-2009, 02:12 PM

"Note also that I could only enter thirteen characters, even when I tried the $ Hex Escape character. So good luck if you're trying to use a 128 Bit WEP key with the Extreme."

What do you actually mean by this? Are you trying to enter 16 hex numbers?

thiggins

11-10-2009, 02:16 PM

What do you actually mean by this? Are you trying to enter 16 hex numbers?I was trying to enter a 128 Bit WEP key, which requires 26 Hex characters.

Unregistered

11-10-2009, 09:20 PM

There is a post over on xlr8yourmac.com from a user who still claims that the new Airport Extreme is a three antenna design. He suggests that you somehow bought one of the old dual-band units and that the model number for the new Airport Extreme is A1354 (however, the old and new units share the same product numbers -- or so this person says).

Frankly, based upon your review I tend to believe that the person on xlr8yourmac is wrong, but I though I'd post in case you had an update.

thetoad30

11-11-2009, 08:55 AM

...especially on my own dime.

Agree to that part. Maybe someday you'll come across one of the previous dual-band models and you can test it just for fun! :D

thiggins

11-11-2009, 09:45 AM

There is a post over on xlr8yourmac.com from a user who still claims that the new Airport Extreme is a three antenna design. I purchased the latest model. But there is more to the story. Update coming soon.

thiggins

11-11-2009, 05:43 PM

Here's the update.
More Surprises From The New Airport Extreme (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/30974-more-surprises-from-the-new-airport-extreme)

Danny

11-11-2009, 10:18 PM

Thanks for your yeoman's job on this review, and your subsequent follow-ups. It's been interesting following along.

Good to see the legions of AppleNut flame-bots haven't infested these forums. …Yet. Heck, your efforts are worth a mention on daringfireball.net.

Unregistered

11-12-2009, 06:44 AM

Have you contacted apple to see what they say? Ask for a return since you don't think it's hooked up correctly?

thiggins

11-12-2009, 09:44 AM

Have you contacted apple to see what they say? Ask for a return since you don't think it's hooked up correctly?I voided the warranty the second I opened it up. Besides, I've already fixed it.

thetoad30

11-12-2009, 01:43 PM

I voided the warranty the second I opened it up. Besides, I've already fixed it.

What you don't realize is that Apple knew their 3x3 design wouldn't be secret, but that by reversing the antennas they have created a secret way to inverse the space time continuum and make wormholes.

Seriously, though, I am not happy with Apple right now. I took my MacBook in for some cracking on the case that I wanted fixed, and learned that it was a known defect. Really? Known? Because I hadn't heard anything about it and I have an Apple ID. An e-mail or a snail mail card to tell me something's wrong would have been good customer service, Apple... they seem to hide all they can. What happened to customer service? I'd gladly pay more for customer service if that's what had to be done. But Apple just over-charges for the same stuff and doesn't deliver the service that you'd expect to come based on the tooting of their own horn.

thiggins

11-12-2009, 02:01 PM

Apple isn't alone in not informing customers of "known problems". Companies in general only inform customers of safety-related problems because of liability. Otherwise, it's tough noogies.

Unregistered

11-13-2009, 06:58 AM

Will you show how the antenna are supposed to be connected? Did you swap the order of the amp connectors where there are 4 in a row?

thetoad30

11-13-2009, 10:46 AM

Apple isn't alone in not informing customers of "known problems". Companies in general only inform customers of safety-related problems because of liability. Otherwise, it's tough noogies.

This I agree with. What I was trying to point out is that Apple boasts itself as being the best company with the best customer service.

Notice that once Dell was sued, they stopped using that claim. All I'm saying is that Apple is saying one thing, and doing another. Not that it's a surprise in this world anymore. It's just blatantly lying through it's teeth.

thiggins

11-13-2009, 12:00 PM

Will you show how the antenna are supposed to be connected? Did you swap the order of the amp connectors where there are 4 in a row?The information is in the article, i.e. swap the connections to the radio module AP3 and 4.

zjohnr

11-13-2009, 12:09 PM

The information is in the article, i.e. swap the connections to the radio module AP3 and 4.

If you want to preserve your warranty I suggest that you get the "techs" at your local Apple Store to do the antenna swap for you. All you have to do is to explain it to them. You could take along a copy of Tim's article as a presentation aid.

I'm sure they'll gladly help once they understand ... or not. :rolleyes:

I'd love to see a video of that conversation posted to youtube ...

-irrational (obviously) john

ltattoo

11-18-2009, 10:31 AM

i've been doing research on the airport extreme this morning. i was shocked to learn of the apple tech error... good work and thanks for alerting us.

Here's the update.
More Surprises From The New Airport Extreme (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/30974-more-surprises-from-the-new-airport-extreme)

Unregistered

11-19-2009, 10:30 AM

I recently bought a wndr3700 (haven't opened it yet) due to the great reviews on the site, but I realized that I can't mount a mac formatted drive on the USB connection. I'm deciding whether or not to deal with setting up time machine to use a windows share or just deal with the less than optimal performance of the Airport Extreme? I was wondering if any of the open source firmwares allow you to mount mac volumes yet?

Any insights would be appreciated.

thiggins

11-19-2009, 10:54 AM

There is no open source firmware available yet for the WND3700. But Open WRT is working on it (https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=22311).

Marxes

11-19-2009, 03:15 PM

Is it true that the Airport Extreme is the only usb capable router that will mount mac drives and hence be able to use time machine?

Unregistered

01-08-2010, 05:53 AM

Is it true that the Airport Extreme is the only usb capable router that will mount mac drives and hence be able to use time machine?

HFS+ filesystem does not have very good Linux support, so I would not expect it to be supported well in any other routers.

daniellord

01-08-2010, 12:46 PM

The authors said this:"For example, the Extreme lacks an SPI (stateful packet inspection) firewall and relies only on NAT for firewall protection. SPI firewalls allow outgoing packets, but only permit inbound packets if they are part of an established connection. While the importance of this feature may be debatable, it is curious that Apple omitted it, since pretty much every other consumer router sports a NAT+SPI firewall."

Well, if you knew more about the Mac, you would know why. The reason is every single Mac has a solid powerful firewall built-in thanks to OS X's UNIX roots: ipfw. Apple saw no reason to bog down their network router running a firewall when users can get more granularlity and flexibility tuning each Mac from the defaults if we desire. Also, CNET tested the APE and found it above average in speed so you might want to retest. The APE does have some missing features as you pointed out, but performance is not one of them. Time Machine and Mobile Me integration, Bonjour printer sharing, and Back To Your Mac support make it the single best choice if you use mainly use Macs. I have three and two extremes in my home/home office complex and they configure and perform better and more reliably than the Linksys products they replaced.

zjohnr

01-08-2010, 11:52 PM

Is it true that the Airport Extreme is the only usb capable router that will mount mac drives and hence be able to use time machine?
I would find that hard to believe. My understanding is that the router does not look at the actual disk content but merely relays the USB commands to access the external storage (or printer) across the local network.

In other words, the router shouldn't care how the drive is formatted or partitioned. Only the operating system on the computer trying to use the drive would care about that.

What could matter is if there is software support provided by the the router manufacturer to allow you to access the drive from a Mac.

Not directly related, but I've been backing up with Time Machine to a network attached IOCELL 351UNE. It's another alternative to attaching a drive via the USB port on a router. Here is a link to a thread (http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=2647) talking about this NDAS device. The thread also contains a link back to the review on this site for this device.

There are bugs in the device driver (kernel extension) when using this device via 802.11 in Snow Leopard. For some reason the read speeds are extremely slow when using wireless with Snow Leopard. Writes seem to be ok though.

I've only seen this problem in Snow Leopard. If you're still using Leopard or using a wired ethernet connection you should have no problem.

-irrational john

szc

03-07-2010, 07:29 AM

Please take a look at this post in Apple Discussion Forums:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=11185456#11185456

Firmware is not available for public yet (it looks like Apple may hide it just like they did with the last one).

Could it be that they also changed something when it comes to hardware? I mean, not just flushed these new replacement units with new firmware, but could it be they also tweaked something "inside"?