How To Back Up NAS to NAS

[pcm]

I read the article 'How to Back up NAS to NAS' with great interest.
I currently have a Netgear ReadyNAS duo and whilst this offers me RAID 1 protection it doesn't protect against RAID controller corruption or power issues (I dont have a UPS connected). In addition, if my computer acquired a virus it could potentially delete all files on my mapped drives.

Therefore I would idealy like to have a second NAS (to provide offline backup)and rsync between them, just as discussed in this article.

I would like to use a QNAP TS-119 as the primary NAS (because it has no fans) and use my ReadyNAS as the RSYNC destination (offline backup). I would schedule the readynas to power on between 2:00am to 5:00am every morning and the QNAP would Rsync to it.
I prefer to have the QNAP as the primary (always-on) NAS because it is virtually silent and is more fully featured.

Alternatively, has anyone tested the Synology 109+ Rsync'ing to the Readynas (the article tests the other way around). I suspect the Synology single bay device will be quieter then the readynas.

I would be grateful if someone could test the setup as detailed above, ideally TS-119 RSYNCing to a readynas Duo.

thanks in advance
- peter

[thiggins]

I'll cover more examples in Part 2. I just ran a quick rsync test of the DS109+ to ReadyNAS NV+ and it worked fine.

Don't know yet about QNAP. But we'll see in Part 2.

[starfox101]

I am not an Xpert, I have a qnap 409 and Synology DS508. I have used rsync to backup from the 508 to the 409. I was not impressed! just slow. All gigabit cat 5e or 6. I ordered a Rosewill RX81 eSATA and a 1.5 hard drive. It's fast and works with the Sysnology.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Hi thiggins.

I also read your article and found it interesting and relevant to what i am looking into doing for myself atm.

I own a QNAP 509 Pro NAS coupled with 5 x 1 terabyte Western Digital RE3 drives all in Raid 6.

I'm looking for a backup NAS that can store that much space. Would you think a 2 bay NAS with 2 x 2 terabyte Western Digital Green drives in JBOD with a single partition would do the trick ? I was specifically thinking of the QNAP TS-219P Turbo NAS

http://qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=122


The reason i picked the 2bay QNAP rather then another 5 bay or 4 bay is because i am only intending this other NAS strictly as a backup. No reason to use raid for a backup solution is there ? So in JBOD with 1 partition for 2 x 2 terabytes i would get enough space to cover a full backup for my QNAP 509 Pro.


If my calculations is right, 5 x 1terabyte is 1024mb x 5 = 5120 mb unformated.

So if i do get the other NAS for backup, then i could change from Raid 6 which is a 40% space penalty, to a raid 5 which only has a 20% space penalty. So this means that Raid 5 for 5tb would be 5120x0.8 = 4096 mb of usable space.

Of course after formating the drives to EXT4 i will lose some space due to formating.



So do you think the QNAP TS-219P would be a good backup choice for my QNAP 509 Pro in this setup ?

Also what software would be best for this ? Rsync ?



You did mention in your article you would be reviewing backup methods for the QNAP line of NAS'es, do maybe you could cover my case under one of your scenarios *cross fingers

[thiggins]

First, it's good that you are adding backup to your storage solution. RAID isn't backup and eventually you would get a RAID fail and realize that.

Your thinking is correct that the backup target doesn't have to be RAID. JBOD is probably the most robust approach in that when a single drive fails, you still have the data on the other drives. But JBOD doesn't let you control which disk is used for data. It's just seen as one volume.

Using this calculator (http://www.ibeast.com/content/tools/RaidCalc/RaidCalc.asp), 5 1 TB drives configured in RAID 5 will give you around 3700 GB of usable space. I don't know how much usable space after formatting there is on a 2 TB drive. But you might be on the edge of having enough space to back everything up.

If you are backing up NAS-to-NAS, you're basically using some form of rsync. "Proprietary" NAS-to-NAS backup options are usually rsync underneath with simplified setup that fills in details like rsync module name that are already known because the target is known. There also might be auto discovery of targets.

[aefkei]

Hi Tim, hi all.

Good article, and a timely one for me, as I'm looking at a backup solution that's similar to Moogle's --- except duplication would be going both ways. I'm leaning towards QNAP solutions atm, and I'm looking forward to reading Part 2 of your review.

I've also stumbled upon this (http://www.backupassist.com/rsync/Rsync_Hardware_Compatibility_List.pdf) (pdf) document from QNAP, describing how to set up backups with other vendor's hardware, which could be of use to you. Hope this helps !

[thiggins]

Good article, and a timely one for me, as I'm looking at a backup solution that's similar to Moogle's --- except duplication would be going both ways.
Why would you do this?

[aefkei]

Why would you do this? Because both units would be in two different geographic locations, each with their own set of users, and backups would be preferably done on the system that's locally available. A duplex backup routine would then ensure redundancy.

[thiggins]

Something makes me uncomfortable about using a device as a primary store and a backup for another device. But I guess there is nothing wrong with that.

[aefkei]

Something makes me uncomfortable about using a device as a primary store and a backup for another device. But I guess there is nothing wrong with that. Well, as long as disk space isn't a problem...

Also, we're already using other means of backup (think USB), but they'll take a more secondary role once the NASs kick in.

[aefkei]

Thanks for the review! I'm a bit put off by the speed (or lack thereof) of the QNAP: could you tell if it's just a device limitation or a more serious software/firmware bug?

[pcm]

Hi,

Thanks for part 2, really intestesting article.
I would really like to know if its possible to RSYNC from a QNAP TS-119 to a Readynas (preferably the DUO) and the performance of the copy.
The reason for the TS-119 as the source is becuase it is effectively silent (the only single bay fully featured NAS without a fan).

However, I'm not too optimisitc. I've done some research already...
Please refer to the last post in this thred..

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20856


However, this post does date back to Nov-08 and I appreaciate firmware has progressed. Therefore I'm asking has anyone with a QNAP latest firmware (v3 or v2.3) managed to RSYNC to a Netgear Readynas device (preferably the DUO model).

I need someone who can conclusively say it works before I spend my money.

Thanks to the author of this site for great reviews!!

Kindest regards.

[thiggins]

I don't have a TS-119 or Duo. But just successfully set up and ran rsync from a TS-109 Pro and ReadyNAS NV+.

For throughput, I'm guessing around 10 MB/s.

[pcm]

I don't have a TS-119 or Duo. But just successfully set up and ran rsync from a TS-109 Pro and ReadyNAS NV+.

For throughput, I'm guessing around 10 MB/s.


Hey thanks. much appreciated.
Can you confirm this was RSync "FROM" TS-109pro "TO" Readynas NV+ ?

[thiggins]

Can you confirm this was RSync "FROM" TS-109pro "TO" Readynas NV+ ?That is what it was.

[Mark]

Great articles to backup from NAS to NAS.
Tim, you have saved us hours and hours of work in figuring out how it
all works. The only thing I am missing here is how we can make an
exact copy of one NAS to another NAS. The Rsync process seems
to require that we have to backup into a shared directory on the
Target NAS. Due to this shared directory the target NAS is not
exactly the same as the source NAS. There must be a way to
backup to the root directory of the target NAS.
Anyone have a clue?

[Mark]

First, it's good that you are adding backup to your storage solution. RAID isn't backup and eventually you would get a RAID fail and realize that.

Your thinking is correct that the backup target doesn't have to be RAID. JBOD is probably the most robust approach in that when a single drive fails, you still have the data on the other drives. But JBOD doesn't let you control which disk is used for data. It's just seen as one volume.

A wrong assumption! With JBOD, you're screwed when one of the disks fails.
In that case, the whole JBOD filesystem is destroyed and you cannot simply read the other disk(s). It's the same as with a RAID array which get destroyed. The only thing to get your files back on the disks which are still ok is by using file recovery software. And it will not be easy! The mechanism used for an JBOD array is LVM (Logical Volume Management) and you cannot simply mount one of the disks and read it.

[thiggins]

Mark, thanks for the correction. I'll have to include JBOD in my planned article on RAID drive recovery.

[Mark]

Tim,

I did not know you are planning an article on RAID Recovery.

I have tried some RAID recovery tools on one of my JBOD disks.
It was not a success. From what I remember it took more than 20 hours
to analyse the disk. Of course files were found but they were not really
usuable in my opinion. I did not have the time to investigate it thoroughly
though. The tools I investigated where UFSExplorer and a DiskInternals
RaidRecovery. What I did not tested was an open source application
called Testdisk. You can download it from

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

I have heard good reports on TestDisk so you might examine it for
your article! Another fine article is in the pipeline!!!

[thiggins]

Thanks for the tips, Mark.

[inkytires]

As a practical matter, when you use a Buffalo Linkstation for automatically backing up another Linkstation you are going to waste electricity. That's because a Linkstation cannot "wake up" it's identical twin (referring to the Pro LS-XHL).

You cannot set the target to Auto power management to use with scheduled backups. Well, technically you can if you are good at remembering to have your PC powered up at the time the backup runs. Not good if you want backups to run late at night or to conserve energy.

Neither can you practically set a sleep/wake schedule for the target. When you do this, your PC cannot wake the Linkstation, and it is unavailable on the network until it wakes itself up or you switch it on manually.

On the other hand, the Linkstation will sleep/wake an attached USB drive from another company.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Thx for bringing up the JBOD thing.

So with a capacity of a few terabytes, it would be best still to use raid5 just in case.


These are my choices so far.

Main NAS: QNAP 509 Pro Raid5 with 5x1tb Western Digital RE3 drives

Backup NAS: QNAP 509 Pro Raid5 with 5x1tb Hitachi Ultrastar A7K1000 drives


My only issue is aethetics. There some newer NAS models that have the drives perpendicular. Would it be better if i replaced my backup NAS from a 509 Pro to a 609?


How should i setup the NAS layout ??


NAS 1 >> DLINK DIR 655 Router >> PC1

NAS2 >> DLINK DIR 655 Router >> PC1


Also should i still get a QNAP? Or is there a better cheaper alternative?