More MoCA: D-Link DXN-221 & Actiontec ECB2200 Reviewed

[vnangia]

I've been watching MoCA as a possible backup if we can't get good quality network cable when we redo our house in Asia, but I'm curious about interoperability: is it possible to use one of the D-Links and one of the Netgears? Or is it basically only sold in matched pairs with no provision for needing to buy a replacement?

[thiggins]

MoCA is MoCA. You can mix and match adapters without a problem.
They are sold in pairs as convenience, since you will in most cases need two (unless you have a MoCA-enabled router).

[Johnny]

Ok, the article said ...

" the Actiontec adapter has no admin access and therefore nothing to tweak. This also means that you can't set it into "All Pass" mode if you want to jump through the hoops required to get MoCA to work on a coax system that has satellite TV on it."


So ... IS there a way to get a Dlink or Netgear MoCA working on a satellite system (DirecTv)? WiFi in my house is horrible .. Wireless N products don't work at all ... I have 4 D-Link Wireless N bridges and performance on 5ghz is about 2mb/s about 20 feet in one direction and about 56k (yes, I mean K!!!) at 20 ft the other way. Not much different in 2.4ghz either. There are a couple locations that I can not wire cat5 so looking for an option but I have Directv .. can anyone verify this is possible? I know the vendor does not support it, but I'd really like to know if it would work and what performance I can get if anyone knows this ...

[thiggins]

From the D-Link DXN-220 manual:

DBS Satellite Television with Terrestrial Television (Off-Air)
The Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS) uses proprietary satellite channel-stacking switch or Low-Noise Block (LNB) to
distribute the resulting signal (usually 950 to 2150 MHz) in the same cable network that carries the lower-frequency
terrestrial television from an outdoor antenna. Another Diplexer then separates the signals to the receiver of the TV set
and the DBS set-top box (STB).
Most of the satellite switches are not designed to pass DXN-220 network signal and prevents it from forming a network.
It is recommended that satellite signal and DXN-220 network signal should remain on separate cable networks. If
separate wiring cannot be done, then additional components have to be installed:
1. Install Triplexer to separate UHF/VHF, DXN-220, and DBS signals.
2. Install MoCA Coupler switch before the satellite switch.
The exercise is left to the reader...

[eaadams]

Now that you have a couple MoCA's could you test them with multiple computers hooked up to multiple MoCA end points?

[thiggins]

Now that you have a couple MoCA's could you test them with multiple computers hooked up to multiple MoCA end points?
I ran tests with multiple connections, but forgot to include that data in the review. The Actiontec and D-Link performed the same as the NETGEAR, i.e. throughput peaks just shy of 140 Mbps with around 4 simultaneous connections.

I'll correct the review.

[DavidH]

D-Link Support today told me on the phone that the DXN-220 component of the DXN-221 kit has only _one_ coax port. That agrees with what I saw 1.5 months ago, when the Dlink.com site was still showing a picture of the back side of the DXN-220.

However your review, Tim, includes a picture of the back side of a DXN-220 that has _two_ coax ports. That agrees with D-Link's January announcement of the DXN-221 kit, which included a similar picture showing two coax ports.

Tim, it is possible that (as I suggested in a post on the Netgear MCAB1001 thread) D-Link originally designed the DXN-220 with two coax ports, but changed it to one port before they shipped in April. Are you sure the kit you reviewed was what actually is shipping? :confused: Or did you use your flux capacitor to obtain a copy of their _next_ revision to the DXN-220? ;)

I took the liberty of mentioning your review to the D-Link sales support person I spoke to, and he suggested that you contact Alfred Loya, aloya@dlink.com. Another contact address would be productinfo@dlink.com.

David H.

[thiggins]

The DXN-220's I reviewed are marked hardware revision A1.

I'm checking with D-Link and will post back.

[Unregistered]

How concerned should I be about encryption? The Actiontec has no interface to put a password but the d-Link and Netgear do. Is this a feature that everyone should look for, or only those in certain situations, like apartment buildings?

[thiggins]

How concerned should I be about encryption?
Depends on your situation and is similar to powerline networking.

At any rate, I wouldn't buy the Actiontec due to it high cost and lower maximum throughput.

[thiggins]

D-Link Support today told me on the phone that the DXN-220 component of the DXN-221 kit has only _one_ coax port. That agrees with what I saw 1.5 months ago, when the Dlink.com site was still showing a picture of the back side of the DXN-220....
I don't know where that picture came from and can't find any evidence of it via Google image search.

But my director-level D-Link contact said that all DXN-220's have two coax connectors, just as my review units did. He did say that the support person could have been confusing "ports" and "connectors".

The DXN handles only a single coax line or "port", but has two connectors. One connector accepts the coax input from the wall, the other provides connection to a TV.

[Unregistered]

Depends on your situation and is similar to powerline networking.

At any rate, I wouldn't buy the Actiontec due to it high cost and lower maximum throughput.

Actually, Amazon has a 2 pack kit for $142.99, so it's really the cheaper option. The throughput difference is not a biggie for me. I'm in a single family house, so I guess I'll have to explore the security issues a liittle more.

[thiggins]

Remember that MoCA can't cross amplifiers. There is some more info here (http://www.mocalliance.org/en/industry/white_papers/06310r00MCA_Members-Home_Entertainment_Over_Coax_2006.pdf).

[eaadams]

I ran tests with multiple connections, but forgot to include that data in the review. The Actiontec and D-Link performed the same as the NETGEAR, i.e. throughput peaks just shy of 140 Mbps with around 4 simultaneous connections.

I'll correct the review.

You can have multiple connections allong the network via multiple bridges? So a network with five DXN-221's.

Or is this more of a A->B type thing not a A->B->C->A

[thiggins]

Yes, up yo 16 bridges are supported in MoCA 1.1. The maximum bandwidth I measured would be the total for the entire network.

[GeezerAl]

It works great with my home network and is faster and more reliable than wireless, but only if you use logic and not the diagrams they show you.

First of all, when I first hooked it up trying to use their diagrams, it kept disconnecting the modem from the ISP and I could never get the setup to work. Perhaps I misunderstand or misinterpreted their diagrams, but perhaps they just were too vague. Getting through to their support team is difficult at best. It is not supported at the lower levels, you have to be routed to a Senior Product Manager who specializes in this device! I never did get any support.

Here is what I finally ended up doing and it works spectacularly and reliably.

1. If you have satellite, you need to buy a Tru Spec T-3 triplexer (or equivalent). It separates out satellite, FM, and CATV frequencies. Connect the triplexer to your wall. Connect the CATV port of your triplexer to your Coax IN port on the DXN 220. If you only have a cable TV and not satellite, just hook up the DXN 220 IN to the wall using a standard CATV cable (they supply two).

2. Connect the TV OUT (ignore the TV part, it is just an out from the diplexer contained within the DXN 220) to the input of a Channel Vision C-0314 1 In 4 Out Amplified Splitter (or equivalent).

3. Connect your Cable Modem Coax connection to one of the 4 output ports on the Channel Vision.

4. Connect an Ethernet cable from the DXN 220 to one of the LAN ports on your router.

5. Connect your WAN port on the router to your Cable Modem.

6. In the other room, connect the Coax IN to the Coax connection in the wall (you can insert a splitter first if you also watch TV in the room).

7. Connect an Ethernet cable from the DXN 220 to the computer.

If the Power, LAN, Coax and 100 Mbps LED lights are on, you have a connection and there is really no need to worry about installing the software and configuring anything; it just works. If the Coax LED in front of the DXN does not glow, you do not have a good Coax connection. The only things you configure are some passwords, the frequencey (or SCAN) and Pass All if you do not need to watch TV. The defaults were fine for me.

The Channel Vision not only amplifies the signal in order to prevent yourself from being disconnected from the ISP as I was, it also allows you some flexibility in how you add devices to your network. The Channel Vision also has an internal filter to eliminate noise.

Good luck with this. I would recommend this to my clients who have problems using wireless and I know that it would work just fine.

By the way, I am using Windows 7, Build 7100 on two built-to-spec computers, one built by me and one built by AVA-Direct. (AVA's build is neater and nicer than mine.)

[eaadams]

The more and more I look at MoCA it reminds me of a Token ring network. Would it be more accurate to call the MoCA "bridges" Media Access Units (MAUs)?

[thiggins]

In all fairness, GeezerAl, D-Link and NETGEAR both state that their MoCA kits do not work with Satellite TV. I would not expect to get support from either company for an installation like yours.

Thanks for sharing the details on your installation, however. I'm sure that it will help others.

[eaadams]

http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/RangeMaxWirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNMR834.aspx

mmm bad idea or good idea?

Where can I get one?

[malev]

Is it possible to attach a hub to one end of the Netgear or Dlink? I have a HTPC and a PS3 I'd like to connect.

[thiggins]

http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/RangeMaxWirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNMR834.aspx

mmm bad idea or good idea?
Depends on the cost relative to buying separate parts.

Doesn't look like it is available yet anyway.

[eaadams]

great whitepaper on MoCA: http://www.mocalliance.org/en/industry/white_papers/06310r00MCA_Members-Home_Entertainment_Over_Coax_2006.pdf

[thiggins]

Is it possible to attach a hub to one end of the Netgear or Dlink? I have a HTPC and a PS3 I'd like to connect.
Yes. Both products are bridges and support multiple devices if you connect a switch.

[drewcwsj]

The more and more I look at MoCA it reminds me of a Token ring network. Would it be more accurate to call the MoCA "bridges" Media Access Units (MAUs)?

MoCA is actually like hubbed ethernet (10base2) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE2) in its multiplexing (multiple nodes) ability instead of token ring. In token ring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_ring) packets received by a node and not addressed to the node are retransmitted to the next node. If a single node fails the whole network fails. With hubbed ethernet every node sees all activity on the wire and ignores the packets not addressed to its MAC ID (node ID for MoCA). When a node needs to transmit it waits for some idle time on the wire (CSMA/CD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_sense_multiple_access_with_collision_detec tion)) and transmits. If another node transmits at the same time you get a collision. Then both nodes stop and a randomized wait time is used to allow one node to transmit while the other waits.

Hubbed ethernet stopped being used when switches got cheap. Now every ethernet node gets a dedicated CAT5/6 cable run to a switch which manages all its attached nodes to prevent collisions. MoCA and the other existing wire technologies (HPNA, HomePlug, Gigle, etc.) don't have the luxury of dedicated wiring and must deal with whatever wiring layout is in the home.

To handle the wire sharing MoCA uses Time Domain Multiple Access (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-division_multiplexing)techniques with a twist. Every MoCA network starts with a domain master (typically the first node powered up) that manages the wire. Every new node that joins gets assigned time to transmit from the master. There is also some free time left open for basic CSMA/CD transmissions. So in essence MoCA is "managed" TDMA.

[CFC]

Hey guys,

What are the steps needed to get either of these kits to work with satellite?
Would I need 2 triplexers to get this to work?
In my office, where the cable modem is, I do not have a TV, therefore no satellite STB. Would I still need a triplexer there? and then another triplexer in my living room to split the signals back up?
What is a moca coupler switch.
I've searched and googled, but haven't came up with a good write-up on how to get it to work with satellite.
I realize it's more complex, but that's the situation I'm in. Powerline works so-so, and wireless is a no-go for me.

Thanks for the help,
CFC

[thiggins]

What are the steps needed to get either of these kits to work with satellite?

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showpost.php?p=10055&postcount=16

[grahams]

How concerned should I be about encryption? The Actiontec has no interface to put a password but the d-Link and Netgear do. Is this a feature that everyone should look for, or only those in certain situations, like apartment buildings?

I have been using the Netgear kit for a few months now and decided to add a third bridge in the basement. Since I can't just buy one Netgear bridge I looked around quickly and bought an Actiontec, not realizing that there is (apparently) no way to set the Encryption Key.

Does anyone know of either a way to set the Encryption Key or where i could get a Point-of-Entry filter such as this one with Cisco:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8806/ps9095/ps10163/7016817.pdf

I wouldn't consider disabling the encryption on my MoCA bridges unless I could use one of these filters to keep my MoCA network from leaking out to the rest of my cable node...

[eaadams]

"Since I can't just buy one Netgear bridge"

in case anyone is looking I am also looking. perhaps I buy and send you 1/2?

[grahams]

That's actually a good idea! I'd be interested in splitting a kit with someone here. I sent a DM to eaadams a few days ago, but he hasn't yet responded..

[eaadams]

sorry I didn't reply. I don't login every day to these forums and had not setup e-mail notification of PM's. (now it is setup)

check your PM. we can do it.

[Bob Nielsen]

I just bought a pair of Actiontec ECB2200s and am planning to hook them up to OTA coax lines. I was wondering if there would be issues with the signal radiating from my TV antenna? I see that both Cisco and PPC have MoCA filters available, which might be a good idea.

[thiggins]

Should be no problem interfering with OTA signals.

[eaadams]

We have one OTA line that has IR repeaters on them. The MOCA bridges did not work on that line.

[Bob Nielsen]

Should be no problem interfering with OTA signals.

I realize that, but was wondering about possibly exceeding FCC limits (I haven't checked Part 15 or whatever regulations might apply). I guess network security might also be an issue. The PPC MoCA filters were recently announced and I haven't found any suppliers yet (nor for the Cisco filters), but they hopefully won't be very expensive.

[Mike West]

GeezerAl's directions are spot on (post #16 05-20-2009). I just spent a day tearing my hair out trying to get these devices to work. I had my coax from the wall into a 2-way splitter and then onto a DXN-220 on one branch and my cable modem on the other. Every time I connected in the DXN-220, or switched from config to moca on the DXN-220, the cable modem would drop out and my internet connection was lost.

However, connecting the coax from the wall to the DXN-220's coax in/out and then the TV out from the DXN-220 to the cable modem, works just fine.

I did not need the suggested Channel Vision C-0314 1 In 4 Out Amplified Splitter.

D-link support were no help and I was passed from pillar to post through their system with many disconnections.

I also could not get the configuration utility to work until I added the utility program to my anti-virus (Trend) firewall allowable programs list. However, it wasn't any help since there's not much to configure!

Anyway, I was just about to send it back for a refund when I saw this, so once again thanks.

[giomania]

It works great with my home network and is faster and more reliable than wireless, but only if you use logic and not the diagrams they show you.

First of all, when I first hooked it up trying to use their diagrams, it kept disconnecting the modem from the ISP and I could never get the setup to work. Perhaps I misunderstand or misinterpreted their diagrams, but perhaps they just were too vague. Getting through to their support team is difficult at best. It is not supported at the lower levels, you have to be routed to a Senior Product Manager who specializes in this device! I never did get any support.

Here is what I finally ended up doing and it works spectacularly and reliably.

1. If you have satellite, you need to buy a Tru Spec T-3 triplexer (or equivalent). It separates out satellite, FM, and CATV frequencies. Connect the triplexer to your wall. Connect the CATV port of your triplexer to your Coax IN port on the DXN 220. If you only have a cable TV and not satellite, just hook up the DXN 220 IN to the wall using a standard CATV cable (they supply two).

2. Connect the TV OUT (ignore the TV part, it is just an out from the diplexer contained within the DXN 220) to the input of a Channel Vision C-0314 1 In 4 Out Amplified Splitter (or equivalent).

3. Connect your Cable Modem Coax connection to one of the 4 output ports on the Channel Vision.

4. Connect an Ethernet cable from the DXN 220 to one of the LAN ports on your router.

5. Connect your WAN port on the router to your Cable Modem.

6. In the other room, connect the Coax IN to the Coax connection in the wall (you can insert a splitter first if you also watch TV in the room).

7. Connect an Ethernet cable from the DXN 220 to the computer.

If the Power, LAN, Coax and 100 Mbps LED lights are on, you have a connection and there is really no need to worry about installing the software and configuring anything; it just works. If the Coax LED in front of the DXN does not glow, you do not have a good Coax connection. The only things you configure are some passwords, the frequencey (or SCAN) and Pass All if you do not need to watch TV. The defaults were fine for me.

The Channel Vision not only amplifies the signal in order to prevent yourself from being disconnected from the ISP as I was, it also allows you some flexibility in how you add devices to your network. The Channel Vision also has an internal filter to eliminate noise.

Good luck with this. I would recommend this to my clients who have problems using wireless and I know that it would work just fine.

By the way, I am using Windows 7, Build 7100 on two built-to-spec computers, one built by me and one built by AVA-Direct. (AVA's build is neater and nicer than mine.)

I am wondering if it is actually possible to send both the CATV, SAT, and MoCA signals down the same coax line utilizing the triplexer? In the example above, the SAT signals are removed by the triplexer, and the MoCA adapters are only handling CATV signals and the MoCA signals over the coax. Since this is capability is within the design intent of the technology, it works.

I am interested in sending SAT, MoCA, VHF/UHF (antenna), and CATV frequencies on the same coax line, but do not think this is possible. I searched and found the frequencies of all these items:

SAT 950 - 2200 Mhz
MoCA 875 - 1500 Mhz
VHF/UHF 54 - 450 Mhz
CATV 54 - 1002 Mhz
FM 88 - 108 Mhz

If the numbers above are correct, the SAT, CATV, and FM frequencies overlap, but a triplexer can separate them. I want to know if a triplexer can be used in combination with a MoCA adapter to send SAT, MoCA, CATV, and FM frequencies on the same coax line, even though they all overlap.

Thanks for any input.

Mark

[giomania]

I am wondering if it is actually possible to send both the CATV, SAT, and MoCA signals down the same coax line utilizing the triplexer? In the example above, the SAT signals are removed by the triplexer, and the MoCA adapters are only handling CATV signals and the MoCA signals over the coax. Since this is capability is within the design intent of the technology, it works.

I am interested in sending SAT, MoCA, VHF/UHF (antenna), and CATV frequencies on the same coax line, but do not think this is possible. I searched and found the frequencies of all these items:

SAT 950 - 2200 Mhz
MoCA 875 - 1500 Mhz
VHF/UHF 54 - 450 Mhz
CATV 54 - 1002 Mhz
FM 88 - 108 Mhz

If the numbers above are correct, the SAT, CATV, and FM frequencies overlap, but a triplexer can separate them. I want to know if a triplexer can be used in combination with a MoCA adapter to send SAT, MoCA, CATV, and FM frequencies on the same coax line, even though they all overlap.

Thanks for any input.

Mark

I decided to test this, since I recently purchased the pair of Actiontec ECB2200's. Although it would be nice to have this working with satellite, it is not critical. So, I just decided I would keep the Actiontec's no matter the result.

Anyway, the result is that it does not work. You cannot send SAT, CATV, and MoCA frequencies down the same cable with the Actiontec's; the MoCA does not work. As soon as I removed the SAT frequencies from the mix (with a diplexer), the Coax LED light up.

I was using diplexers in my SAT distribution system, which separate the CATV and SAT signals. I tried all combinations to get this to work, but was not successful. I also noticed that some of the two way splitters in my "pile 'o parts worked, while others did not.

I hope this helps someone.

Mark

[thiggins]

Anyway, the result is that it does not work. You cannot send SAT, CATV, and MoCA frequencies down the same cable with the Actiontec's; the MoCA does not work. As soon as I removed the SAT frequencies from the mix (with a diplexer), the Coax LED light up. The reason it doesn't work is that MoCA uses the same frequency band as SAT TV. Stick a SAT TV signal on the same coax and it and MoCA will collide.

[bonestx]

Tim, I'm a little confused. In post 28 you made it sound like post 16 (by GeezerAl) would work with Satellite. In 38 you say it won't? So can this work with Satellite if you use triplexers (or diplexers)?

I'm currently on Dish Network (ancient DVR 501D that I own), getting standard-def TV. When the TV or Dish PVR dies I figure I'll upgrade to HD, probably FIOS since it is now available in my area. I also a have a MythTV backend working with a XBMC frontend (original XBox). Since I don't have ethernet in the family room I'm using 802.11g (Linksys WRT-54GL running DD-WRT to a WAP-54G in WDS mode).

Lately I've started having problems with drops on the MythTV streams (new neighbors moved in and camped out on my formerly clear channels). I thought MoCA might be a good alternative to 802.11g and something that would eventually work for HD when I finally get there. If I can get it to coexist with the Dish Network I currently have.

[thiggins]

In 38 I was explaining why MoCA won't work if MoCA and Satellite TV signals are on the same coax, i.e. without a diplexer, which separates the signals.

[Unregistered]

Does the Dnx-221 support moca 1.1?

[thiggins]

Does the Dnx-221 support moca 1.1?No. It's certified (http://www.mocalliance.org/industry/certificates/08059r00MCA_Members-MIC028.pdf)to Moca 1.0.

[rtfm]

a) Are there any available MOCA devices that do NOT require Windows to configure; i.e. use a tiny webserver?

As I read it, both the DXN-221 & MCAB-1001 require you have a Redmond machine upon which you load some program to configure the boxes. Is this true? [Yes, I know they are allegedly "plug & pray" but.....]

Are there any MOCA bridges that are windoze-free?

b) I can't find specs that say if the boxes are MOCA 1.0 or 1.1 versions.
I make it a rule to not buy 1.0 of anything so I'm worried.

And with 1.0; how many bridges can I use on a given net?

c) There was a mention of the stats being worthless but I did not follow why that was the case...

[thiggins]

a) Are there any available MOCA devices that do NOT require Windows to configure; i.e. use a tiny webserver?Not that I'm aware of.

b) I can't find specs that say if the boxes are MOCA 1.0 or 1.1 versions.
I make it a rule to not buy 1.0 of anything so I'm worried. Look up the products' Certifications here (http://www.mocalliance.org/industry/certified_products.php).

And with 1.0; how many bridges can I use on a given net?16 for both 1.0 and 1.1

c) There was a mention of the stats being worthless but I did not follow why that was the case...They're not helpful because you can't run traffic and look at the stats at the same time.

[rtfm]

Thanks.

1) I have to wonder what's going through the heads of the designers re: needing to install a M$ program. A full decade ago I {successfully} harangued another major Taiwan firm that I did some betatesting for that their [then upcoming] new network gear MUST have a webserver for configuration. They listened, and avoided much grief re: installation programs etc.

I wonder why this relapse to that era; Actiontech has such built into their MI424WR but that's more than just a bridge.

2) It looks like the later Netgears are 1.1 but there's always the issue of ensuring you get the current version.

3) The sample & hold on the stats sounds like a PITA but better than none at all. I'm guess the internal CPU is straining to carry the traffic, much less talk to the monitor.

[stevech]

D-Link DXN-221 - Fry's today. $175 for the pair. Ouch.
Plug-and-play. Just worked out of the box. My cable has TV and Cable Modem. All's well. Except:

I could not make their config utility work:
Win XP Pro PC connected by cat5 to Linksys WRH54G router. No software firewall on PC.
DXN-221 connected to same router's LAN port (switch).
DXN-221 in "Config" mode. Power cycled. Rebooted PC.
Utility when run says CONNECTING... then a popup says "LOST CONNECTION". Gee, in never had a connection. Tried all sorts of things. I'm quite LAN-literate. To no avail. Tried both units. Well, I'm just using these and they work fine. Fortunately I don't need the config utility. It may be needed later to do firmware upgrade.

I suspect the utility is doing MAC layer 2 packets to discover the DXN-221. Nowhere in the D-LINK docs does it say I must have a certain IP address scheme.

Tech support level 1, 2 were totally untrained, unprepared, and had big ESL problems.

Any clues?

[thiggins]

I could not make their config utility work:The config utility will only work from a computer plugged directly into the adapter.