Ethernet from your TV Outlet: NETGEAR MoCA Coax-Ethernet Adapter Kit Reviewed [Archive]

ketzer

02-23-2009, 11:11 PM

Great review.

One thing out of interest, I doubt it would make any difference based on the numbers you saw, but was the splitter you used for the second setup rated for frequencies above 1GHz? I only ask because I saw from the MoCA spec and your review that some of the channels it uses are on frequencies above 1GHz, and most coax splitters are only rated up to 1GHz. So, long story short, I was curious if it made any difference using a full 5MHz-2GHz variant versus a regular 5MHz-1GHz, but like I said, your numbers seemed to answer that question already.. Presumably, the larger range just opens up those channels as options for the adapters to use, but wondered if there was any performance advantage with that.

Otherwise, glad to see at least one manufacturer is finally releasing a MoCA consumer product. Been waiting for these since D-Link originally announced theirs over a year ago (what a let down, btw). Currently have and use both 802.11n and HomePlug AV at home. HP AV has been adequate for Slingbox streams, including HD channels, which I think Sling compresses the hell out of (on top of what Comcast already does), but I've still seen the bandwidth vary widely at times over those. Would like to have the more reliable throughput of these MoCA adapters in the house. Was about to break down and buy some NIM100s from eBay, but think I'll wait for these now thanks to your review.

Again great review, thanks.

Unregistered

02-25-2009, 04:41 PM

thiggins

02-25-2009, 05:00 PM

The splitter didn't have any frequency range marked on it. But, as you said, it must have passed enough signal for good throughput. MoCA is designed to work over a 50+ dB signal range. So it can withstand a good deal of loss.

thiggins

02-25-2009, 05:05 PM

One thing I'd be VERY concerned with when connecting it to cable is that you're also transmitting the signal through the input of the splitter and then to the cable plant. I wonder what would happen if you connected a third device to another tap at the CATV pedestal or pole... would it also connect if there was no device to device security?Same issue as with powerline. That's why there is the option of security. The signal also can't travel back through amplifiers. And I'd imagine there are a few of those between homes and the cable plant.

As a Satellite customer I'll pass as this device doesn't appear to function in the environment I have but I'm also interested in learning how to get the device to work with a satellite system. I'm not your average consumer and could potentially accomplish a working install...
You would need to put the device in All pass mode, then install an external diplexer to restrict operation to frequencies that don't interfere with your particular satellite system.

DavidH

02-28-2009, 03:41 AM

Tim, as a multiple-Macintosh user without a single Windows machine at home, I ask:
1) Did you need to use the installation CD that NetGear says comes with the MCAB-1001, and if so, what's on it?
2) Would you please try accessing the device's built-in administrative web browser with a browser other than IE--it would be great if you could try it from a Macintosh? NetGear's spec sheet says the MCAB-1001 requires Windows XP or Vista, but the Indian NetGear tech support person I talked to today says that recent NetGear devices will work with any modern browser (he may not know what he is talking about).

BobG

02-28-2009, 03:04 PM

Hi Tim,

After researching numerous alternatives over recent days, I just learned of MoCA, and this product, today. Great review, thank you.

This is just what I want, for all the reasons you cited. One question;
Each unit has only one ethernet port. I want to connect both a TiVo and a BD player. I contacted Netgear TS to ask if I could connect a switch. they promptly replied with the following message:

"We are sorry to inform you that MCA1001 does not have DHCP server so it cannot be connected to 2 devices.Thanks again for choosing NETGEAR. Have a great day!"

This is disappointing, but before giving up on this solution, I wanted to seek your expertise. Would not the IP's be assigned by the router that the upstream MCA would be connected to? If not, is there any other way to connect two (or more) devices to the downstream MCA? (Figure 15 in your review seems to show a switch in the loop. Is the true?)

Thanks for your attention.

thiggins

02-28-2009, 06:13 PM

I have to check, David, but I don't recall using the CD. I used FF on an XP machine.
I didn't see anything fancy in the web interface that wouldn't run on any browser.

thiggins

02-28-2009, 06:16 PM

That was a very uninformed tech that "answered" you, BobG. The MCA1001 is a bridge and will pass multiple MAC addresses. So yes you can use it with switches on both ends and and yes, your router would handle DHCP through it just fine.

BobG

03-03-2009, 05:21 PM

Hi Tim,
Thanks for confirming that for me.

In continuing to research MoCA, I just came across a similar product made by Gefen, that is currently available (the Netgear product is not yet available.) It's called Gefen TV Ethernet over Coax, #GTVETH2COAX.

Are you familiar with this product, and if so, if there any reason not to consider it instead of the Netgear unit? (I'm particularly eager to get a solution in place.)

Thank you.

thiggins

03-04-2009, 09:39 AM

The Gefen product is not MoCA, but uses UPA powerline over coax. It is not intended to be connected into an active coax network.

If you're really in a rush, hit eBay and buy some Motorola NIM100's. NETGEAR said that product should be in stores within the next few weeks.

BobG

03-04-2009, 12:51 PM

This particular product is Ethernet over Cable, not powerline.

thiggins

03-04-2009, 12:55 PM

Download the user manual (http://www.gefen.com/pdf/GTV-ETH-2-COAX.pdf) and see page 31:
"Standard Support ................................................. UPA DHS (200 Mbps) PLC"

corndog

03-04-2009, 04:27 PM

Guys,

I think this discussion is going around in circles because we need to clearly name the standards.

1. There is MoCA, which specifies how to transmit ethernet frames over Coaxial cable.
2. There is HPNA, which originally specified transmitting ethernet frames over home phone lines and then was extended to also include Coaxial cable.
3. There is UPA DHS which originally specified sending ethernet frames over Home power lines and then also was extended to include Coaxial cable.

Everyone is going towards Coax cabling because electrically it has the most promising possibilities for carry a LOT of information. However, some of these standards are designed to work with live TV on the same cable, while others are not. Most of them also will not work with digital satellite info, even if they may work with analog TV signals.

Just to clarify. Carry on...

Unregistered

03-04-2009, 04:50 PM

And how about the ECS-1001, as described here :

http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/range/1220

Would that deliver the same target, i.e. transmitting ethernet-signals over a coax-cable ?

Just bumped into that one, when I was looking for ethernet-over-coax ...

BobG

03-04-2009, 08:09 PM

Thanks to both of you for your notes.

I had downloaded and read the user manual, but I hadn't understood the distinction between UPA DHS and Moca that you've now explained.

This product is apparently not Moca, but it IS ethernet over cable and is intended to work over coax, not over powerlline. Note that the actual name of the product specifies coax, and it has coax ports, not powerline connections. But perhaps it is only intended to work with dedicated coax which is not also carrying a television signal.

If that's the case, it's not clear to me how the product would be used (unless the user had a second coax line in the wall). (???)

Looks like I'd better wait for the Netgear MoCA units.

BobG

03-05-2009, 09:50 AM

thiggins

03-05-2009, 10:04 AM

thiggins

03-05-2009, 10:09 AM

So, I now understand that there are other forms of sending "Ethernet over Coax", but that only MoCA will work over coax that is also in use for cable TV signals.

Could you please confirm if that is correct?
Thanks.
Without investigating the details of each non MoCA product, I can't say for sure.

MoCA is the standard that the Consumer Electronics industry seems to be rallying around. It has been extensively tested and is intended to coexist with OTA and cable TV signals on the same coax. I do not know whether the other technologies support coexistence.

If you decide to buy a non MoCA product, you need to do your own homework to see if the product requires dedicated coax or can work over coax that is carrying other RF.

BobG

03-05-2009, 11:35 AM

Thank you.

FYI, after receiving you note yesterday, I called Gefen to ask if their product would send ethernet properly on the same cable that was being using for TV.

The TS person I spoke with checked and said NO. On further questioning, he said it requires a dedicated cable.

Disappointed but seeking confirmation, I called again this morning and spoke to a different TS person. He asked who the cable provider was (Cox) and whether I also had digital telephone (yes). This person, after then briefly checking something, told me YES, it would coexist. (!!!)

I then repeated the question in different ways to ensure absolute clarity. I was told that the product would definitely work with in-use coax as described above. He had no explanation of why another individual had told me otherwise.

thiggins

03-05-2009, 11:42 AM

Proceed at your own risk.

eaadams

03-10-2009, 12:21 AM

When will these be on sale? Any ETA?

We need one, perfect to send a signal over a now unused Coax from granny unit/garage to house.

jdabbs

03-10-2009, 01:20 AM

Pretty soon--many sites have a product page and sku assigned, and BLT (http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=enter&thispage=01200U02U0122_BU43596P.shtml&order_id=%21ORDERID%21) expects a few in on the 12th.

eaadams

03-10-2009, 01:05 PM

Is BLT a good store? I'm thinking something this new I'd like to get it at a Best Buy or equal where they will have a good return policy.

jdabbs

03-12-2009, 02:51 AM

I haven't purchased anything from BLT, so I can't say. I used them as an example as they, unlike others, listed an ETA on their product page. I don't think waiting for Best Buy is an unwise decision.

Guest

03-17-2009, 03:10 PM

Hi! I'd had been waiting for years for a product to run ethernet over coax.

I have had luck with a small company: Multilet -- which produces an Ethernet over Coax Balun / wall-outlet. The cool thing is that it plugs right into the wall, giving you a nice ethernet port, and no other hardware. Perfect for a living room setup and scoring high on the WAF (=wife acceptance factor...).

Interestingly, the system also draws power from a distributor (basically, you plug your ethernet source into the distributor, and then it sends the ethernet signal over a cable.)

Also in its favor -- price: the distributor is about $150, and each wall-balun is around $50. A 4 port setup can be had for around $350 -- signficantly less than MoCA.

Downsides -- it can't work with cable TV systems (if you have 2 coax drops in every room, it would be perfect). Also, not sure how well it works over splitters and performance.

Finally, I am also not sure if the company is still making it. Too bad, because it is the perfect solution for me.

FYI -- I bought it from DFS countryman in Minn, MN.

Unregistered

03-26-2009, 01:20 AM

These Moca units are starting to show up at the Fry's Electronics in the Bay Area. Still showing out of stock at Amazon though.

javelina

03-27-2009, 02:45 AM

Just got mine from Amazon, ordered from them in mid-January. Pretty easy to install, although I did have to reset and pull the power from the second unit to get to it work.

Live in a townhouse with the office (were the cable modem is) upstairs and the large screen television downstairs. Wireless "N" was not working for me, so I spoke to an electrician about running an ethernet cable between the office and downstairs. He said that would be very difficult since I did not have access to the exterior of the building.

MOCA seemed like my only option, so I ordered the MCAB 1001. I can say it works great. Have an Intel iMac upstairs, and Mac Mini G4 downstairs. Plugged the ethernet cable directly from the second unit into the Mac Mini. No problem downloading video podcasts and system updates. Thanks to Leopard I can remotely control the Mac Mini from the iMac.

Can't get the configuration utility to see the MCAB from within Fusion, so it looks like I will have to have to borrow a Windows laptop to set the security. Not sure it is really necessary, but I am paranoid when it comes to security.

Still have to try streaming video, and maybe I will run some crude speed tests.

Unregistered from PDX

03-27-2009, 09:43 PM

I have verizon fios and their provided Westell UltraLine Series3 (MoCA-enabled) router. Any idea whether the Netgear MCAB1001 kit will work with this router?

The Westell router is used for MoCA for the multiroom DVR, but my assumption is that it already provides Ethernet packets over the coax cabling. Is my assumption correct?

In other words, will I be able to use the 2 MCA1001s that come as part of the MCAB1001-kit to provide 2 cat5 ports or only 1 cat5 port (where 1 of the devices is used to allow the ethernet packets to travel over coax)?

Thanks!

Guest

04-01-2009, 06:44 PM

All of the Moca equipment should be able to run together since they are all certified for Moca compliance. If the Fios router is already communicating to the set-top boxes through Moca then you should be able to add bridges to the Moca network ie. get 2 extra ethernet ports from the MCAB1001 kit. The only thing to be mindful of when joining another Moca network is there might be a security password which the cable company can supply to you.

More info here:

http://mocablog.net
http://connectmystuff.org

Unregistered from PDX

04-01-2009, 08:17 PM

eaadams

04-05-2009, 01:36 AM

I am looking forward to your experience

DavidH

04-05-2009, 03:55 AM

I'm the multiple-Macintosh user who posted a question on the first page of this thread. I've been waiting for the D-Link DXN-221 to be released. Now it has, as of late last week. The only problem is that, unlike the Netgear MCAB1001 devices, the DXN-221 HD MediaBridge® Coax Network Starter Kit has only only one coax port on each DXN-220 device. Can I use a proper splitter on a DXN-220 to get the equivalent of two ports?

The reason I want to go with D-Link is an unfortunate experience I had a few years ago when I owned a Netgear router. The router went bad after about 6 months, and I phoned Netgear tech support to get a fix/replacement. I was connected to an Indian script-monkey (no disrespect to Indians in general, and I'm sure this particular fellow was much more intelligent and flexible off the job), who kept repeating "this device must be connected to a Windows PC to diagnose the problem." This was despite my telling him that by then I could fully configure the router using an obsolete version of Mac Internet Explorer (I had taken the router to work and used a Windows machine to start with). When I recently called Netgear pre-sales tech support to ask whether the MCAB1001 could be configured from Firefox (I didn't dare say from a Mac), I again got an Indian fellow.

By contrast, when I phoned D-Link earlier this week to ask whether the DXN-221 could be configured from a Macintosh, I got a flexible American/Canadian. After checking with someone else, he told me that the requirement of Windows XP or Vista is only to run the configuration Wizard. If I am willing to do the configuration manually, a Mac using Firefox should be fine.

For anybody who is wondering why I don't run Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable instead, I live in an apartment where that would be expensive to do in a non-ugly manner. The two rooms I want to connect are across an interior hall from one another, and the ceilings are reinforced concrete above a thin coating of plaster. All apartments in the building were pre-wired with TV coax (under the wood floor), and for 11 years I have been running Ethernet between the two rooms using a 10 Mbps hub with a bayonet coax port on each end.

Now that MoCA makes it possible, I immediately want to increase my Ethernet speed beyond 10 Mbps. However, in order to make the original coax connection part of my LAN, I had to disconnect the coax between the two rooms from the cable TV connection that comes into my living room. I am currently OK with having a TV only in the living room, but I might eventually want to stream HD TV from one of my computers--all of which are in the two other rooms that are part of the LAN.

For what it's worth, the DXN-221 that D-Link demoed on 6 January had two coax ports on each DXN-220 device. I also note that dlinkshop.com is advertising the DXN-221 for almost $50 US less than other sites advertise the MCAB1001. I am hoping that D-Link delayed releasing the DXN-221 kit in order to redesign the DXN-220, making it significantly cheaper by eliminating the second coax port (presumably after having done market research that showed many potential customers didn't need it). Would someone please check this (http://www.dlink.com/products/resource.asp?pid=668&rid=2817&sec=0) to see if the DXN-221 specs seem otherwise comparable those of the MCAB1001?

Thanks in advance,
David H.

thiggins

04-05-2009, 09:12 AM

According to a discussion with D-Link at CES, they are not releasing the DXN-221 to retail. Service providers only.

DavidH

04-05-2009, 11:20 AM

According to a discussion with D-Link at CES, they are not releasing the DXN-221 to retail. Service providers only.

D-Link must have since changed its mind, Tim.

Its retail outlet dlinkshop.com had for a number of weeks listed the DXN-221 as a back-ordered item. I had signed up to get an e-mail notice when it was in stock, and late last week received the notice. There then was a delay of about a day until dlinkshop.com added a description for the product, which curiously enough came slightly before dlink.com listed the DXN-221 as a product on its website. It was then that I phoned D-Link to ask about the Windows requirement.

At no time during this process was I asked if I represented a service provider.

Here's a thought: Maybe D-Link removed the second coax port on the DXN-220 component to make service providers happy, so it could change its mind post-CES and release the DXN-221 retail. Which leads back to the first question in my post above: Would adding a proper splitter be equivalent to adding back the second coax port?

FWIW, dlinkshop.com now lists (https://www.dlinkshop.com/product.asp?sku=3961856) the DXN-221 as back-ordered again. Sob.

David H.

eaadams

04-06-2009, 12:18 AM

I used to have a D-Link 802.11 B router that pooped out. Had same problems you had with netgear. And it was someone in south asia also.

Nothing is beyond outsourcing.

thiggins

04-06-2009, 10:07 AM

I'm checking with D-Link.

You should be able to use a splitter.

eaadams

04-06-2009, 01:46 PM

Is the D-link MoCA?

I guess part of the MoCA deal is they all work together. So if not MoCA should we have our guard up?

thiggins

04-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Is the D-link MoCA?
Yes, it is.

thiggins

04-08-2009, 01:55 PM

D-Link must have since changed its mind, Tim.
Right you are, David. D-Link says they now do, in fact, offer the DXN-221 via etail.

Unregistered from PDX

04-08-2009, 07:15 PM

OK thanks - that's what I figured.

I was able to find the MOCA password inside the Fios Westell router's Coax LAN configuration webpage. I ordered the MCAB1001-kit online (buy.com) and expecting it next week.

I'll post how my experience goes getting the MCA1001s added to my small home network. (And if I have any questions or run into issues, I will be sure to ask :-) )

So I received the MCAB1001 kit earlier this week.
I am having problems with getting it working...

As soon as I hook up the coax cable from the wall to the CoaxIn port of one of the MCA1001s, and the CoaxOut is hooked up to the STB... I loose the capability to get video-on-demand (VOD) and also the multi-room DVR capabilities. This happens even when there is no power to the MCA1001. Tried a whole bunch of settings on the MCA1001s as well as the Fios Westell router.

Need to play around with it some more.

thiggins

04-09-2009, 10:10 AM

What signal is on the wall coax? Does the Westell router have a coax/MoCA output?

Unregistered from PDX

04-09-2009, 03:30 PM

What signal is on the wall coax? Does the Westell router have a coax/MoCA output?

(Just a reminder that this is for Verizon FiOS)

Yes, the Westell router has a MoCA output that provides connectivity for the coax LAN to WAN (ethernet to the fiber ONT) -- which is how I *believe* I get VOD as well as the muti-room DVR streaming capability.

So... the coax is providing CATV directly from the fiber ONT, as well as creating a coax LAN between the different STBs/DVR and Westell router to provide VOD and multiroom DVR.

Don't know if this answered your question or not.

(I am almost able to get the MCA1001s working together with all of this using splitters. Will post details of that separately, hopefully sometime later today.)

Unregistered

04-10-2009, 01:02 PM

It sounds like it is just configured wrong. Hold down the reset button for about 15 seconds.

Unregistered

04-11-2009, 10:39 PM

The Good: Just tried some simple experiments with a pair of these. The transfer speed for a single stream is ~85Mbps between the main PC and a DNS-323 (and with security "on"). For reference, this was through 1 splitter and ~50 feet of coax. The "test case" was a 1.5GB movie (it took very close to 2:21 for the transfer either way). Also tried streaming a > 40Mbps CBR video simultaneously with a full CD rate audio feed and everything just worked. And, the cable service still works just fine (this includes the DVR functionality, on-demand services, etc).

The Bad: Enabling security requires reconfiguring the units, which is decidedly annoying as they don't support remote configuration (this was also mentioned in the original review). And, there is no option for AES encryption (only DES is supported).

The Odd: The only "oddity" with the units is that the blue LEDs are actually significantly different hues between the two units. One unit has the traditional "electric" blue LED color, the other unit has a much paler, slightly purple hue. Like I said, odd.

Overall, the performance seems very good from my perspective, and I'm quite happy with the units :)

Hope this Helps (and makes sense)...

P.S. Some very high bit rate open source test videos can be found at http://www.w6rz.net/.

Unregistered

04-13-2009, 12:48 PM

The CoaxOut port filters the MoCA signal, so it can only be connected to STB, TVs, or routers that are not MoCA-enabled.

You need a splitter from the wall connected to both the STB and MCA1001.

thiggins

04-14-2009, 08:59 AM

Thanks for all the helpful comments to the Unregistered posters.

I'd appreciate it if you would register if you are going to make multiple posts. Don't be shy...

Unregistered

04-28-2009, 07:37 PM

Does having encryption slow down the MCA1001?

I have a empty coax cable that I can use point to point (it used to be a second satellite cable for HDTivo) , so encryption does not seem to be a concern.

thiggins

04-29-2009, 08:57 AM

Does having encryption slow down the MCA1001?

MoCA traffic is encrypted by default.

Eho1011

06-01-2009, 08:52 PM

Hi all,

I just recently bought a netgear moca to try to get wired ethernet into the basement. I've got Comcast high-speed internet running through an Arris telephony modem (We've got comcast phone service as well.)

I tried hooking up the moca but as soon as i hooked it up, the cable modem lost its internet signal...putting the moca in config mode, or unplugging it restored internet service. I found this very odd....

One reviewer at Amazon.com noted the same thing with his motorola modem, and got around it by placing the modem in moca d-band mode (as opposed to "all pass" mode.) I tried this as well, but to no avail....

Anyone run into this issue, or heard of this?

Netgear customer service couldn't help. They told me to return the unit and try another unit - i did this and same problem...

Thanks!

Mimi24

06-03-2009, 07:01 PM

Try again… Go into Netgear MoCA Configuration Menu and “restore factory default” settings to your Netgear units. After the units have successfully reset, check and make sure that they are all in MoCA “D-Band Mode”. Remember, you have to do the same for all of your Netgear units.

Eho1011

06-05-2009, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Tried your suggestion,

I set both units to Moca D after resetting them to factory defaults.

When I connect the units, I get a flashing ethernet symbol on the moca unit, but the coax traffic LEDs on both units remain unlit....

hmmm...

I wonder if the telephony modem has anything to do with it?

Mimi24

06-08-2009, 01:55 PM

But, are you still losing Internet connection after you have connected the Netgear units?

Losing Internet connection and not be able to link up are two separate problems.

If you want to debug some more, connect the two Netgear units together directly with just one coax cable. If they link up, this will prove that your units are working properly and there may be a cable disconnect or unidirectional amplifier in your house. Then, you may want to try to hook them up in different rooms.

If you are losing Internet connection, this points to an interference issue. Then, I would try disconnecting your telephone modem and etc to see if the problem will improve.

routermonkey

06-08-2009, 06:03 PM

Did you ever get the coax lights to light up? I had a problem with my MCAB1001's where as soon as the coax light lit, my cable modem (Motorola Surfboard) would go offline.

I finally went back right back to the utility panel in my house and hooked everything up there and got it working - I think it was an attenuation problem with the signal because of one of my splitters. I replaced the splitter and got everything hooked up and running in the rooms where I wanted it.

If you're never getting the coax lights to light though, you may have a different problem.

Eho1011

06-09-2009, 10:30 PM

No, the coax lights never actually lit up. I messed around with it quite a bit, but I've basically given up... Moca is going back to the store.

I actually called the guys who did the wiring for my house, and apparently my phones lines are running with CAT5, so they're just going to get me a direct internet connection into the basement (for $150!). :D

Hopefully someone from Netgear will read this someday and figure out a solution for this so other people won't have this problem....

StationStops

06-10-2009, 01:21 PM

In my testing, I was not able to simply connect a switch to the other end and use it with multiple devices - I had to stick a router on there, either in bridged or subnet mode - this worked fine.

Also - I did a local LAN FTP transfer test over the device between my MacBook and my Linux server and was able to achieve 90 Mbps transfers - close to real-world Fast Ethernet cap - so I don't understand why they put 100 Mbps interfaces on this device.

I sent an email to Netgear and asked about this, no reply (been weeks now).

I just posted my review here:

http://www.stationstops.com/2009/06/10/netgear-mcab1001-review-moca-coax-ethernet-adapter-kit/

picman1

06-16-2009, 11:35 AM

I am debating on using Moca extenders to extend my ethernet to a room to connect a Sony PS3 to my PC server in my basement (2 floors down) and to my TV to stream blu-ray DVD's. My question is if I add these Moca extenders will my gigabyte network get downgraded to a megabit network and do I need to be that concerned about it? Also, will I be able to stream 1080p using these Moca extenders? Thank you.

thiggins

06-16-2009, 12:29 PM

Just as connecting a 100 Mbps device to a Gigabit switch does not "downgrade" all Gigabit connections to 100 Mbps, neither will connecting a MoCA bridge. Only traffic through the Moca connection will be limited.

70 Mbps is plenty fast for a 1080p stream.

eaadams

06-16-2009, 01:14 PM

It is not like 802.11 (I am thinking airport) extenders.

We have apple airport repeaters and they do cut your throughput by 50% via each extender.

.. if that is what you were thinking.

picman1

06-16-2009, 09:17 PM

Thank you for the explanation but looking at Netgears hookup of their MCAB1001 extenders from their website the coax comes from the modem which comes from the street. The ethernet starts from the MCAB1001 and goes through the router. Isn't the ethernet speed at 100mbps from the extender and to the router and thus throughout the network or am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Thanks again.

thiggins

06-17-2009, 09:06 AM

As I said, any traffic flowing through the MoCA bridges will be limited to 100 Mbps, which is the link rate of the 10/100 Etherent connection. But traffic between Gigabit Ethernet devices will not be limited by the speed of the MoCA devices.

picman1

06-20-2009, 08:03 AM

Thank you I got it now. I just got a couple of Netgear extenders and they worked like most everyone else on the thread, right out of the box no config needed. Streaming 1080P from my PC server and the PS3 through 2 floors no problem.

One thing I noticed and I didn't see much on the subject is streaming a movie from the internet is not as good. It is watchable, no pixilation but some minor stutters. Are there any adjustments to improve internet streaming or these extenders limited for intenet streaming. Thank you again.

thiggins

06-20-2009, 09:33 AM

The Internet streaming problem has nothing to do with the extenders. The problems can be due to any number of things related to the path from the Internet-based server to your router. But nothing to do with the MoCA connection.

xdarque

07-02-2009, 03:12 AM

Anyone know how to configure the QoS or priority of traffic on these adapters? Currently, whenever I copy a large file over my LAN using the MoCA connection, the adapter that listens for WAN traffic completely ignores any and all WAN packets until the large LAN file transfer is done.

For example, if one of my other machines starts a bandwidth test on speakeasy.net, the test will just pause midstream (as soon as the large LAN file transfer starts) and will only resume once the LAN file transfer is done.

I already changed the config from "All Pass" to "D Band" in order for my cable modem (which is connected to one of the MoCAs) to even work...

Thanks in advance,
-Dan

eaadams

07-28-2009, 05:32 PM

Ok so we got our Netgear MoCA up and running on one of our two Coax networks.

It works! However, it kills the image quality on our farthest TV (via a distribution box, a 13 year old version of THIS (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10&productId=100396470&N=10000003+90401+501636)) and it also kills the IR repeaters over COAX (via the same distribution box) for the TV's to which the MOcA is attached.

Luckily we have a 2nd COAX network that we once used for Satellite TV. So I will adjust this for MoCA.

What sort of Coax splitter can I use for MoCA?

Can I use this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10&productId=100479584&N=10000003+90401+500106+4294926876

or this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10&productId=100579552&N=10000003+90401+500106+4294926876

or this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10&productId=100396625&N=10000003+90401+501636

[EDIT] I have to go:

3 MoCA adapters via 1 Coax Spliter

eaadams

07-29-2009, 09:56 AM

I read this about moca spliters: "Do not use any splitter with a "power pass" output on any ports as this will cause pixilation of your broadcast video and unreliable MoCA connections"

What does that mean?

eaadams

08-05-2009, 10:35 PM

I thought I would post my experience.

We have a netgear switch that goes about 70' to a Home Depot Coax 5-2.1ghz splitter. From the splitter it goes another 80'+ underground to a detached garage.

It works perfectly. No problems and so easy to setup. I am so pleased.

I'm eagerly awaiting the moca router that has wifi and I'm going to use moca to do out upstairs.

This works so much better than our old Airport with daisychained repeaters. Quite amazing.

phdeane

08-11-2009, 07:55 PM

Hello - hoping someone can help me.

I'm trying to test the throughput of my Netgear MoCA adapters. I was seeing relatively slow file transfer speeds when I was using the adapters in my real-world cable system. I say relatively as it was way less than the advertised speed, which we know to be too high. I was also having freezing issues using Netflix streaming (PlayOn software to PS3) across the adapters.

So I thought I would do a rudimentary test. I removed the two adapters from my real-world environment and put them on a test bench. I connected them via the supplied 3' RG6 coax cable by connecting the Coax IN on both adapters. I connected the Ethernet port on one adapter to my laptop (XP Pro). I connected the Ethernet port on the other adapter to my D-Link DIR-655 wireless n router (gigabit), which is connected to my cable modem. I have a home computer (Vista Home Premium) connected to that same router. The MoCA adapters were left in the default setup configuration (although I did try all other combinations, too).

To be clear, there is no cable TV signal going through the system and no other computers involved in the test. I also have all firewalls on the computers turned off, as well as anti-virus programs.

To run my test, I simply copied over a folder containing numerous large video files from my laptop to a hard drive on my home computer. The total size of the files was 2,868,251,724 bytes and it took 7 minutes, 27 seconds to copy over the files. I ran the test numerous times and got the same results. I calculate that transfer rate to be 51.33 Mbps (megabits per second).

I got the exact same transfer rate when going in the other direction (home computer to laptop), as well as in the real-world setup where my adapters are going across about 50' of RG6 coax cable.

By the way, to get a baseline, I first connected the same laptop to the same home computer on the same router, and ran the exact same copy test. No MoCA adapters involved. In that case, the files transferred over in 62 seconds, which I calculate to be 370.10 Mbps. This should rule out any hard drive read/write access speed issues, router issues (unless the router conflicts with the MoCA adapters), etc.

I spent hours on the phone and email with Netgear. I even got an engineer to run the exact same test (at least he says he did, but he's all the way in India, so not sure about that), under the same test conditions, and he got just short of 175 Mbps (which, based on the review here, I don't even know how that is possible). In any event, they deemed the adapters to be defective and sent me two new ones. I got the same result. Netgear is now unable to help me.

My question is this. Is my test valid or flawed? Is a large file transfer a valid way to test throughput? Netgear said it was a valid test, but then why do others use software programs to test throughput?

I'm hoping someone more technical than me can point me in the right direction. If I didn't have the Netflix issues, I probably would not have run the tests in the first place, but now I either want to resolve this or get different MoCA adapters from another manufacturer.

Thanks in advance!

corndog

08-11-2009, 09:05 PM

Hello there,

I would say that in your case it looks like a valid test. As tests go, it's one of many. You are only testing large files - you could also test many small files, or a random mixture, which would give you different, but still meaningful, results.

However, since your main purpose is to stream video, the large file copy would seem to make sense.

I would suggest, to make your testing more informative, run it again with a MUCH larger file. Maybe 30 or 40 gigs in size.

While the test is going on, check the graph of network throughput in task manager. Is it pretty stable? Or does it peak and then drop off in spurts?

I normally get 60 to 90Mbits/sec on my MoCA, but my graphs show that it is pretty stable around 60 to 70, with jumps up to 100. I have no drop-outs, however.

Even high definition video should be able to play without the slightest problem in a situation like this, as long as you're not dealing with uncompressed raw video (which would be crazy anyway).

Something to try anyhow...

thiggins

08-12-2009, 09:49 AM

What speed are you expecting to see? The review showed a maximum of 70 Mbps using IxChariot (which has less overhead then Windows file copying) and TCP/IP. Higher speeds are obtained only when using multiple connections.

You could try simulating this by doing two file copies simultaneously.

phdeane

08-12-2009, 02:59 PM

I would suggest, to make your testing more informative, run it again with a MUCH larger file. Maybe 30 or 40 gigs in size.

While the test is going on, check the graph of network throughput in task manager. Is it pretty stable? Or does it peak and then drop off in spurts?

Thank you for the quick reply. I will give the larger file size a try. I'm not real confident about it, though, as I so consistently get the 51Mbps throughput. I will also try more smaller files, but I didn't mention that the folder I'm copying does contain over 30 files in three folders. Can't hurt trying both, though.

What speed are you expecting to see? The review showed a maximum of 70 Mbps using IxChariot (which has less overhead then Windows file copying) and TCP/IP. Higher speeds are obtained only when using multiple connections.

You could try simulating this by doing two file copies simultaneously.

Thank you for your reply, too. I am expecting the 70Mbps, or at least close. 51Mbps just seems too far off. I realize that should be fine for streaming any even moderately compressed HD files, but I have seen intermittent problems that I mentioned previously.

As for the two files, I hadn't tried that, as I'm sure I will get an improved throughput. However, that doesn't represent the real-world streaming I do. It is also still worth a try to see what type of throughput I get in comparison to the review.

Thanks again!

phdeane

08-12-2009, 03:04 PM

The review showed a maximum of 70 Mbps using IxChariot (which has less overhead then Windows file copying) and TCP/IP.

Ahh, I glanced over the above bolded statement. Do you think that would account for my slower throughput? Could copying files using Windows account for such a significant difference? I don't have a program to test, but if there is a freeware or free-trial program that would work like IxChariot, I'm open to suggestions. My only concern is also that the Netgear engineer said he duplicated my exact test (which, of course, is suspect, as how can he have an "exact" duplicate test environment?) and got much higher throughput.

thiggins

08-12-2009, 03:55 PM

There is a lot of overhead in Windows file copying with XP. Vista SP1 improved file copy speed significantly (after screwing it up in the initial release). But you need two Vista SP1 (or higher) systems to achieve the full benefit.

You can try FTP instead of file copy for lower overhead. iperf/jperf is probably the closest you can come to IxChariot for low-overhead throughput testing. But the settings you use are important because the defaults don't necessarily provide the highest throughput. See Measuring Network Performance - Iperf (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30388/53/) and Measuring Network Performance - Jperf (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30408/53/).

phdeane

08-12-2009, 04:03 PM

phdeane

08-12-2009, 04:09 PM

And thank you for the great review, by the way. It was your review that spurred me to purchase the Netgear MoCA adapters.

phdeane

08-14-2009, 02:45 AM

thiggins

08-14-2009, 10:58 AM

Thanks for letting us know how it turned out.

Unregistered

08-25-2009, 05:06 PM

First, thanks Tim for a really useful review. I bought a pair of MCA1001's based on it, and I'm very happy with their performance. I'd rate them 100 out of 100 if I they allowed remote management. Right now I'm looking for a third one, but don't want to spend the bucks to buy another set of two. Maybe Netgear will eventually be willing to sell these singly.

Regarding Windows file copy throughput, I'll bet the the culprit is the latency added by MoCA -- up to 9 msec each way if I recall correctly. I believe Windows file copies have frequent two-way communication, so latency will reduce throughput. (I've seen this effect in other situations with latency.) FTP, on the other hand, is designed to work efficiently with long latencies, and so will give better throughput. Any streaming protocol designed to run on the internet also should be fairly immune to network latency.

richardd

08-26-2009, 09:26 AM

Tim,
Thanks so much for all your helpful information.
I am all-MAC, no-PC here. I want to connect a TV and Blu-Ray to my Netgear MOCA COAX-ETHERNET adapter. Will I need to change any settings on the adapter? Will I need to find someone's PC to do so? Will it work out of the box? Thanks.

eaadams

08-28-2009, 02:07 PM

Right now I'm looking for a third one, but don't want to spend the bucks to buy another set of two. Maybe Netgear will eventually be willing to sell these singly.

Me too, need one more. Personally, I am waiting for: http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/RangeMaxWirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNMR834.aspx

eaadams

08-28-2009, 02:08 PM

We have macs. It was plug and play. Just put a cheap 10/100 switch behind it if you have multiple devices on either end.

facke02

10-05-2009, 06:23 PM

Just to give an update. I ran jperf across the MoCA adapters and using TCP and a TCP Window Size of 128 KBytes, I consistently get a throughput of about 90 Mbps - good enough.

Thanks again to Tim and the others who replied. I certainly learned a bit through this process.:)

First time poster, long time reader...

Question, why does this device require the TCP Window Size to be specified to reach maximum performance? I've been testing my setup and I'm getting 17 -25 Mbps on IPerf over MoCA. If I bump the TCP Window Size I can get 90+ Mbps. If I take the same notebook and plug it into a local network in my office IPerf shows 70+ Mbps with no TCP Window Size and no MoCA.

My media streamer (Xtreamer) does not streamer HD video over MoCA very well because of the limited default performance on MoCA with no TCP Window Size specified.

Any thoughts?

Thanks...

Ken

Unregistered

11-07-2009, 09:49 PM

Amateur here, so please be kind. : )

I'd like to run my setup by you guys, as you seem to know this product really well. I haven't purchased the adapter yet as not sure this will work.

We have Dish Network and I'm aware it doesn't officially work with the MOCA adapter. I don't think it will matter for us because we have dual coax running to our TV.

So my question is: Can I put this adapter on a dedicated coax line, then plug it -- as well as a Direct TV receiver -- into a cable splitter that is then plugged into my TV?

I'd also like to know if there are any issues with using a wireless broadband connection (directional antenna) rather than cable or DSL for high-speed internet.

Thanks for your input; I'd love to get the show on the road. : )

Balthazar-B

12-09-2009, 08:22 PM

Me too, need one more. Personally, I am waiting for: http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/RangeMaxWirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNMR834.aspx

If you (or anyone else) wants to split a two-MoCA kit (I need an third), let me know! I'd prefer a Netgear to match the pair I already have.

Thanks!

aamitabh

12-21-2009, 01:04 PM

Hello Tim and other MoCA gurus,
I have psted this on avsforum as well but I do not seem to get any response. So here is it goes again.

I just purchased Netgear MCAB1001 and connected two of my HTPC and the third one to the router. I was quite excited to achieve at least 50-60 mbps but I am not getting the expected bandwidth. What is weird is that I am getting different speeds between two computers in different directions.

I am using NetCPS.exe to measure the performance (RAM to RAM transfer of 100MB data). In the diagram below with MAINHTPC being the server and LAPTOP PC being the client (bottom if image: red/green arrows) I get 70-80 mbps. But in the reverse direction I only get 16 mbps. For the world of me I am not able to figure out what the issue is, or how to start debugging.

The network driver advance settings are all set to "auto detect".

Any thoughts?

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thiggins

12-21-2009, 04:04 PM

Are those the only two computers that you are having the problem with? If yes, start moving things around to isolate the problem component.

aamitabh

12-22-2009, 03:29 AM

Basically, I am getting good bandwidth initiated from laptop to all the computers, but bad performance with any other combination or direction. I am wondering if it has to do with some compatibility issue with my router and the MoCA device.

Cheers. -Amitabh

thiggins

12-22-2009, 10:06 AM

Well, I'd first separate the Moca Adapters from the system and just connect them with a piece of coax and maybe a splitter to see if they work that way.

aamitabh

12-27-2009, 09:18 PM

Hi Tim,

Ok! So I did some more testing as per your recommendation over the weekend. I have two scenarios.
Scenation A: 2 laptops connected directly through a GiGE switch
Scenaion B: Laptops connected through just moca boxes and a splitter in between.

The bandwidth is still directional. If the performance testing client is the newer laptop then I get good bandwidth.

Also, with MoCA introduced into the system the bandwidth goes down by 3-4 times in both directions.

The network cards are intel 82566MM GiGE on the newer laptop (running Vista) and the older one has Intel Pro1000 PL running windows 7.

For the life of me I am notable to figure out why the speed is different in different direction. How do I debug this problem? I have swap the ethernet cables between MoCA's and then between laptops to make sure that the MoCA's are not the culprit.

Cheers. -Amitabh

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